Jeep Gladiator

[tobyw]

SBC will live for years at 3k... Overdrive transmissions were designed primarily to increase fuel economy, not engine life Modern engine design, lubricants, and manufacturing processes are what we have to thank for engines running 200k+ miles, not the rpm range in which they live their lives. Given the aerodynamic equivalent of a brick you are dealing with there, the cost of an overdrive will probably never pay for itself in fuel economy gains. Besides, if you are using it for towing/hauling, that SBC won't spend much time in OD anyways.

[mattawajeep]

Yea, never really considered an overdrive. I want to be able to tow my TJ and maybe even add a canopy or small camper down the line. Good to know that 3000 won't kill it, the current tires will work for a bit.

[mattawajeep]

Slow and steady....








Gonna do some more fitting tomorrow then clean and primer the supports. Hopefully I'll get the passenger side and some of the cracks in the back welded up.

The glass guy i going to stop by tomorrow and remove both windows as well. Then I can pull the dash and start sandblasting.

[mattawajeep]

Is there anyplace in the tri-cities that builds custom leafsprings? Heard of a place in yakima, but I don't get out there much, and comparing prices is always good.

[Wrench]

Is there anyplace in the tri-cities that builds custom leafsprings? Heard of a place in yakima, but I don't get out there much, and comparing prices is always good.

I would just find an application that fits your needs and order new from Rock Auto. In other words, if a"1990 Chevy xxxxx" has exactly the spring dimensions you are looking for, order one for that application. Or build a bastard pack using the main leaf from your truck.

[mattawajeep]

Is there anyplace in the tri-cities that builds custom leafsprings? Heard of a place in yakima, but I don't get out there much, and comparing prices is always good.

I would just find an application that fits your needs and order new from Rock Auto. In other words, if a"1990 Chevy xxxxx" has exactly the spring dimensions you are looking for, order one for that application. Or build a bastard pack using the main leaf from your truck.

Main leaf is toast on the front, it needs to be re-curved - something I was told a leafspring specific place could do.

Also, these things are weird pre 67. Front and rear are post mount, and there is only one company out there that makes leaf springs that fit and they won't do for towing.

I suppose if I can get the front repaired I can just get random leaves and see what fits. Figuring out the correct rates and load might be a pain though. This thing is gonna be on the road, not off.

For this year and leaf system - the only things I see people doing on the internet are getting custom springs or doing extensive frame modifications.

[White trash]

There is no extensive modification needed since the truck and frame are made of steel.

What are the dimensions eye to eye measured along the leaf and where is the center pin in that measurement? I've got a thing for leaf springs so I'm sure I can figure it out for you.

[mattawajeep]

There is no extensive modification needed since the truck and frame are made of steel.

I suppose that's all in how you look at it. Rear isn't nearly as much trouble as the front if I have to start moving stuff around. I'd kinda like to get it out of the garage sometime this winter.

What are the dimensions eye to eye measured along the leaf and where is the center pin in that measurement? I've got a thing for leaf springs so I'm sure I can figure it out for you.

If you can figure something out that'l be awesome.

I think the post's are 7/8". I'll have to take them apart to find out for sure.

Rear: 52"
From center pin to front eye: 26
Width: 2.5

Front: 44"
From center pin to front eye: 22"
Width: 2"

[White trash]

Those are the same dimensions as GM trucks.

If I remember right 67-72 4x fronts are 44" with a centered pin and GM rears were 52" centered pin from the dawn of time till '88.

Dump that stupid pin mount and build a simple spring hanger for the front and slide shackle tubes into the frame for the shackles to be installed in the rear.

[mattawajeep]

Those are the same dimensions as GM trucks.

If I remember right 67-72 4x fronts are 44" with a centered pin and GM rears were 52" centered pin from the dawn of time till '88.

Dump that stupid pin mount and build a simple spring hanger for the front and slide shackle tubes into the frame for the shackles to be installed in the rear.

From the research I did earlier I knew 52" was common, but as you say, they need different mounts. Didn't know anything about the front.

Now, new mounts aren't really that big a deal, except that by moving the springs under the axle I'll gain about 6-7" of lift.

I could go spring under axle to account for that but even though this isn't a wheeler I don't want springs in the way. They always seem to catch on something.

[OldGreen]

Pics of spring mounts?

[bobracing]

Think you have the springs you need under the parts rig.
The rear mounts should just be drilling some holes and bolting the springs/mount/shackle mounts.
Not sure how the front is set up but the parts rig spring mounts are there for the front and if the frame isn't straight, beleive the front shackle mounts will work too. If the frame is straight, an out-boarded mount is needed.
If the parts truck springs are used, common chevy lifts springs could be used.
The 2" spring are going to be hard to find, there isn't many "more modern" rigs that use them, besides the new axles are setup for 2.5" springs anyway.

If you can figure something out that'l be awesome.

I think the post's are 7/8". I'll have to take them apart to find out for sure.

Rear: 52"
From center pin to front eye: 26
Width: 2.5

Front: 44"
From center pin to front eye: 22"
Width: 2"

[mattawajeep]

Pics of spring mounts?

Don't have any good pics of the rear mounts at the moment, but the rear is easy no matter what. The front though, would as I said earlier take extensive modification - and getting rid of the post mounts will add way too much lift without going SUA. Not to mention having to deal with how the steering box is mounted to the frame.

Think you have the springs you need under the parts rig.
The rear mounts should just be drilling some holes and bolting the springs/mount/shackle mounts.
Not sure how the front is set up but the parts rig spring mounts are there for the front and if the frame isn't straight, beleive the front shackle mounts will work too. If the frame is straight, an out-boarded mount is needed.
If the parts truck springs are used, common chevy lifts springs could be used.
The 2" spring are going to be hard to find, there isn't many "more modern" rigs that use them, besides the new axles are setup for 2.5" springs anyway.

Here's the pics of the parts rig I have. Don't have any better ones of the mounts. I was looking at the steering stuff mostly to figure out what I need to do. Front springs are post mount here as well. Springs look a little bit tired as well.







I'll have to do some measuring, but it would be nice if I could just steal some leafs off the rear of the parts rig and get it beefed up.

It's sounding like I'm stuck with getting custom springs for the front though (or getting another identical set and combining the two packs somehow) - as it will be way easier to adapt the donor axle to 2" springs rather than the reverse.

[OldGreen]

1986 to 1997 Ford Rangers have bolt on spring hangars that fit the bill nicely for the rear. Both ends.

This one is flipped, but you get the picture:

[mattawajeep]

1986 to 1997 Ford Rangers have bolt on spring hangars that fit the bill nicely for the rear. Both ends.

This one is flipped, but you get the picture:

I'm pretty sure the rear shackle is flipped like that on mine as well. I'll have to look at it when I get home.

[mattawajeep]

Yup, same setup.





Measured the rear springs on the Chevy. They will fit just fine. I think I'll keep the main spring from the jeep pack and replace the rest with chevy springs.

The front is the only issue.

[White trash]

You're looking at this puzzle from the wrong angle and it has you all screwed up. Measure the GM perch distance before thinking about the suspension. If memory serves the front is on 31 1/2" centers and the rear is 36 or something. Now take that measurement and compare it to your frame. Survey says it will likely be different than what you have so you'll be forced to change the setup from that relic garbage mounting system you have now. Do not look at this as a problem but as a way to force you to do what's right! Get that number and I'll help you finger this issue out. The front springs are almost yj length if I remember right so that's simple. The rear just use the whole GM pack, don't cannibalize the ancient junk for their mains do it right.

[mattawajeep]

You're looking at this puzzle from the wrong angle and it has you all screwed up. Measure the GM perch distance before thinking about the suspension. If memory serves the front is on 31 1/2" centers and the rear is 36 or something. Now take that measurement and compare it to your frame. Survey says it will likely be different than what you have so you'll be forced to change the setup from that relic garbage mounting system you have now. Do not look at this as a problem but as a way to force you to do what's right! Get that number and I'll help you finger this issue out. The front springs are almost yj length if I remember right so that's simple.

I'm aware that the spring perches are in the wrong spot. It's been the plan all along to move those instead of everything else. Seems simpler to me. Especially when you consider how much lift will be gained by moving the springs under the frame. It's just way too high without going spring under axle, and then you run into perch problems anyway.

Here's a few pics of various rigs I've uncovered with a 14 bolt swap that retain the gladiator post mount springs.







You end up with about 1.5" of clearance between the tires and the springs. It's tight, but no one that's done the swap has reported any problems.

Here's a dana 44 front with gladiator post mount springs. Granted the number of leafs in the pack, and the blocks make the high steer setup a bit stupid tall.









I'll go out and measure the perches though - looking at all the options isn't a bad idea.

The rear just use the whole GM pack, don't cannibalize the ancient junk for their mains do it right.

That's probably a good idea. Though, the chevy parts are only 9 years younger and the truck looks like it's been used to haul a lot of weight. It's also post mount in the rear btw.

[mattawajeep]

Here's the the measurements:


Gladiator Rear Frame Outside Edge to Outside Edge: 44"

Gladiator Front Frame Outside Edge to Outside Edge: 34"


Chevy Rear Springs Outside Edge to Outside Edge: 45"

Chevy Front Springs Outside Edge to Outside Edge: 35"


So yes, you are correct there, the post mount spring perches on the gladiator axles are a good bit wider than the chevy. If I were to move the spring mounts under the frame it would match up with the chevy axles great. But, as I keep saying, it would be stupid tall.

[White trash]

Springs that are outboarded to that extent make for a real sweet turning radius much like the queen Mary or airforce 1.

You only end up with as much lift as you build into it. A set of stock hardtop yj rears would work great in the front and provide no lift themselves. You'd still be able to clear the springs when turning too.

As much as I hate them for 90% of their uses these days a set of 4 leaf 64" GM rears would be fantastic in the rear.

GM did not use a pin mount on that era of truck, if it has one someone fabrimuhkaytid it on there. GM, Ford, Dodge, international etc all used a setup functionally identical to the ranger set up OG posted.

Two of those rigs you posted have been modified for more lift. The one running buckshots has custop arched packs to clear a tire that cannot be over 36" tall and the one running h1 tires has a rear shackle flip and arched front packs. You wouldn't have much lift over stock with the springs I recommended and they would be an improvement over what you have in every conceivable way.

[79chevy39.5's]

from the looks of it wouldnt putting the springs under the frame would put it pretty close to factory gm spring mounts right? then you would be able to turn

[mattawajeep]

Springs that are outboarded to that extent make for a real sweet turning radius much like the queen Mary or airforce 1.

Heh, I didn't notice, of course when I drove it home I was distracted by the bad brakes and the badly adjusted clutch. Didn't try any tight turns.

You wouldn't have much lift over stock with the springs I recommended and they would be an improvement over what you have in every conceivable way.

Even in the front?



Even if the springs were flat, and I stuck the spring directly on the bottom of the frame I'd gain an 4 extra inches.

I'd also have to come up with a new steering box setup and location. It's kind of in the way. I suppose I could hack away some of the inner fender and mount a chevy box on the outside of the frame.... Of course, then that might interfere with the steering just as much as the outboarded springs.

Meh, complicated.

[White trash]

The factory springs are arched a bit with high mounts and the yj springs are flat so they wouldn't lift it all that much.

If it were me I'd add a brace above the frame where the spring mounts by the firewall and cut the bottom of the frame higher for spring clearance and I'd run the shackles to the rear of the springs.

Steering isn't all that tough when you realize that's basically an old cj setup and they had springs under the frame with an inboarded steering box...

[mattawajeep]

So...


Pro's of Spring Under Frame:

Easy to find / cheaper springs
More Flex... Better ride?
Better turning than stock
Don't have to modify spring perches

Cons

I won't finish any time soon...
From all I hear, the post mounts are a bear to remove
Lots of work to keep from adding a ton of lift
Need to buy / build shackles & mounts
Need extra supports
Steering box will need to be moved & mounts fabricated
Steering linkage will have to be modified
Less room to fit my pto winch
Less stable (especially if I eventually add a camper or even a canopy)


I'm not convinced that moving the springs is the best option in this particular case


A better turning radius than stock would be nice, but the fact that this thing is going to be pulling a trailer, and that most trucks can turn farther than you want to with a trailer attached its not that big a deal.

Lift... Yeah, this wouldn't be bad if not for the 3" body lift that's already there. I plan on removing as much of it as I can - but from what I'm discovering 2" of body lift is needed to clear the SM465. Apparantly it is much taller than the jeep trannies and the trans tunnel in the older gladiators is quite a bit tighter than later model J-trucks. I wan't just enough lift to clear 34's or 35's (I think it's pretty close as things stand). Any more than that is just going to add issues I don't need to deal with.

If this was a wheeling rig, the decision would be a no brainer, however, as a tow rig the advantages really don't outweigh all the additional work.

[bobracing]

I think you're over thinking the steering. The truck has cross-over steering right now and this should stay. Pitman arm, draglink, and tie-rod may change but the style won't. The GM parts truck has push-pull type and this isn't very desirable, I wouldn't change the style you have now.

YJ springs might be a little light, but can be had upto 1080#.
http://www.generalspringkc.com/Leaf_Spr ... s/1952.htm

How about Waggy springs, 1335#.
http://www.generalspringkc.com/Leaf_Spr ... s/1956.htm

I'm also having a little problem with the widths you posted, they are within 1"? GM front springs are 47" long and with a 2.5 lift will be an almost flat spring. The parts truck should have an outboarded front spring mount to start with. The (front) rear shackle would be the only fab part, an outboarded shackle mount.
http://www.generalspringkc.com/Leaf_Spr ... s/1823.htm