Project Cheep

[Wrench]

Update:
-added some tunes! I acquired a stereo head unit for free (minus faceplate), and scored a set of speakers and faceplate from Ebay for about $50. Yay! No more hole in the dash, and I have some tunes now!

[Wrench]

Update:
Installed a winch mount plate on the front bumper this week and coated the bumpers with Rubber Guard.

Pics updated in the initial post.

[Wrench]

So, last weekend we went wheelin' outside Ellensburg again, and I had problems with my axle disconnect, AGAIN. I really like the ability to disconnect the axle, but it can be such a pain at just the wrong time.

One of the things that kept me from eliminating the disconnect is that the 207 transfer case does not have an ouput flange that accepts the double-cardan driveshaft. Luckily, last time I broke an axle shaft, I was able to pick up a small load of parts which included a 231 transfer case and corresponding double-cardan front driveshaft.

So this weekend, I decided to swap the 207 for the 231. Direct swap, right?!?

I dont think so...


The 231 came from an '86 Cherokee 2.5/AX5 setup. Mine is an '84 2.5/AX5 setup. To make a long story short, the AX5 transmissions are DIFFERENT at the output shaft area and will not interchange. The 207 has a longer input shaft that protrudes much further than the 231, and the 231 input shaft is not long enough to reach the seal on the back of my current transmission.



231 on left, 207 on the right:



Needless to say, I am going to have to swap the transmissions also. Since my current transmission has an external clutch slave cylinder and the '86 has an internal type, this is not going to be as easy as it sounds...

[White trash]

Why wouldn't the trans swap be easy? Unless they did some serious modifications all an ax5 is just a G series Toyota trans, swap the bellhousing and input shaft retainer and run it.


Heck for that matter why not see if you can swap the input on the t case instead? There is a snap ring that holds the input into the planetary assembly. Pull the input and so some quick measuring before you dig too far.

[Wrench]

Why wouldn't the trans swap be easy? Unless they did some serious modifications all an ax5 is just a G series Toyota trans, swap the bellhousing and input shaft retainer and run it.


Heck for that matter why not see if you can swap the input on the t case instead? There is a snap ring that holds the input into the planetary assembly. Pull the input and so some quick measuring before you dig too far.

Trans swap will not be too bad. The bell housing is a direct swap, but the plates on the front section are different and will need to be swapped also. I guess that is what you were referring to as the input shaft retainer?



The t-cases are NOTHING alike. Housings appear close, but different, nothing is the same. The inputs are different. I believe the 207 has straight-cut planetary gears while the 231's are helical cut, and they are different sizes/different ratio's. Since the planetary gear input is machined to the other end of the t-case input shaft, there is no way it will work. And if you look at a parts illustration, you will see that everything inside these cases are nothing alike.

[Wrench]

Well, it gets even better...

I tried to swap the input shaft retainers, but THEY ARE DIFFERENT! The bearings on the input shafts were not the same, and one had about 1mm less protrusion past the outer snap ring than the other. When I tried to swap the shaft retainer plates, the one I needed would not seat properly as it was hitting the bearing before seating on the gasket.

So I tried a different route: swapping the rear housings on the transmissions. Luckily, they were completely interchangeable.

Got everything swapped over and bench tested, then installed in the vehicle.

NOTED DIFFERENCES for reference:
-input shaft location and corresponding seal location in trans must match
-both front and rear driveshafts are about 1" further to the rear with the 231
-231 and 207 slip yoke are nearly identical and interchangeable.
-transfer case shift linkages are different, not interchangeable without modification
-trans input shaft locators were different

[Wrench]

Much happier with the 231 'case.

I didnt take a look at the internals of the 207, but I am convinced the planetary gears are straight cut (very noisy). The 231 is SO much quieter!

Updates:
-built a long-arm kit for the front end and installed Grand Cherokee Up-Country springs (stiffer and progressive) Moog pn CC782. It worked so good, it made the rear feel absolutely terrible!

-building a 3-link coil conversion for the rear. My springs were totally SHOT, so I decided to just update the entire rear end instead of just the spring packs.

[bobracing]

pictures?

[Wrench]

Putting the finishing touches on this weekend.

3-link, and I designed it to unbolt and bolt onto another Cherokee with minimal work:







Here it is at full extension:



And here it is at rest, about 4" of sag:

[Wrench]

Action shots:

[CopenhagenCowboy]

I want my suspension to flex like that

[Wrench]

I want my suspension to flex like that

Actually, that was too much, and too much body roll. I am in the middle of changing things around back there for better results.

[OldGreen]

Swaybar? Better shocks? Pictures??????

[tobyw]

Better shocks?

Or maybe just shocks at an angle that makes them functional?

[OldGreen]

That's a really good point. Shocks should be as close to 1:1 ratio as possible. Interstingly, the optimum shock angle for a leaf spring vehicle is about where a stock TJ has its shocks. . .but they are coil sprung.

[Wrench]

Shocks and springs are being completely relocated.

The springs are being relocated further back, closer to the wheels, and the top mount is being frenched into the "frame". The rear should sit several inches lower than it does now, but still have a full 10" of travel without rubbing.

The shocks are being relocated forward and the top mount is being sunk into the bottom of the rear cargo area. It wont be a 1:1 ratio, but it will be very close, and the ratio will increase as the travel decreases (progressive, instead of previous regressive setup).

Better shocks? Yes. I had one that sprung a seal leak a while back, and Rough Country warrantied it for me; sent me a brand-new set of rears. Functional? Those worked OK the way they were. Not ideal, but OK. That arrangement gave me a full 14" of travel on the rear with 10" travel shocks, though.

On another note, I had quite a few issues with my power(less) steering the last time up at Kaner. My steering gearbox is pretty fresh, so I opted to replace the pump. Rumor has it a '01+ Grand Cherokee V8 pump has higher volume/pressure. We'll see if that's true...

[Wrench]

Better shock angle:


Testing in my driveway:




Testing in the canyons behind A&B turned out very successful. We have video, just need to convert it and post it up.

I am also very happy with the Grand Cherokee power steering pump. HUGE improvement!

[Wrench]

Doing a little more tweaking with the suspension.

Going to Moog CC784 springs in the front and moving the CC782's from the front to the rear. The front has been bottoming pretty hard in the dunes with the winch left on, and the rear seems to be a little soft when flexing out, stuffing the rear wheels well before the opposite front. Hopefully this balances it out well.

CC784:
Variable rate spring
ID: 4"
Wire Diameter: 0.578"
Load/Spring rate: 561/158
Free height: 18.6"

CC782:
Variable rate spring
ID: 4.04"
Wire Diameter 0.578"
Load/Spring rate: 503/146
Free Height: 18.4"

Up to this point, I thought the 782 was the stiffest stock, dual rate spring (from an Upcountry Grand), which I found while researching the 'net. This is not the case, as the 784 is stiffer.

[OldGreen]

Is that stiffer spring from a snow plow package or police or something?

[Livin4Today]

Nice work, what do you figure that three link, long arm set you back for materials and such? it's got me dreaming of the future lift in my JK...

Although I'd like to keep COG low, but be able to stuff 37's someday...

[Wrench]

Is that stiffer spring from a snow plow package or police or something?

I have no idea. I was looking up an application for a 1997 Grand Cherokee and the 784 spring also came up, though the application doesnt seem to specify exactly which exact model. I googled the specs, and found it was a stiffer spring. When you look up the application on RA by the spring part number, it lists early Cherokees.

[Wrench]

Nice work, what do you figure that three link, long arm set you back for materials and such? it's got me dreaming of the future lift in my JK...

Although I'd like to keep COG low, but be able to stuff 37's someday...

I think I had less than $200 total in materials for the front and rear. If you pick through the scraps at Twin City Metals, they will sell it to you for scrap prices.

Low COG, 37's; yeah, that sounds nice. For a Cherokee, that would require either shorter travel suspension, cut fenders (even more), and definitely stronger axles (at least for the way I drive). And I dont think my 2.5 would be happy. Nor would the steering radius, as my 33's already hit the "frame" at full lock. I am quite content at finding better ways to make my small tires work well for me.

If I ever go with 37's, I am gonna swap in a 4bt so I can have decent fuel mileage and enough torque to turn them.

[Wrench]

So...
the specs listed on Moog's site were not correct. The 782 springs were actually a smaller wire diameter than the new 784's I received, and neither specs I measured matched up to what was listed. I am also not impressed with how sacked-out the one-year-old 782's are. They were nearly 3" shorter than the brand-new 784's. I suspect it is a product quality thing, I have heard that most of the springs these days are coming from a country that is notorious for low product quality. And no, they were not made in the US.

Anyway, the new springs should work much better for the front with the larger wire diameter/stiffer rate.

On to other things:
The last time out at Juniper, my power steering setup was leaking. This last winter, I had switched to a larger volume/pressure power steering pump from a Grand Cherokee. I suspected the leak to be my ghetto-fab seal between the old reservoir and the new pump (that has a larger inlet hole), but found the reservoir actually sprung a leak at the seam in the reservoir itself. These reservoirs are neither cheap, nor plentifully available. They notoriously get the return bung broken off when people try to remove the return hose.

So... take a trip to the junk yard and pick this reservoir up for $20:



The donor vehicle was very stripped, but the junkyard receipt says it was a 2004 F250. So is that an upgrade, or downgrade?

It came with a nice attachment bracket. The reservoir sits on this with rubber mounts.



And I fabbed a little bracket that holds the new fitting into place on the pump:



The new reservoir is nearly twice the capacity of the old one that was attached to the pump. It also has some great baffling inside that should help prevent aeration. I was previously having a bit of a problem with the oil getting aerated and hot, and then puking oil out the vent cap.