Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:58 am
Would like to be running by Liberty, but, failing that, maybe PUAM...
Page 5 of 6
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:02 pm
Dave, how many engines is it going to take to get this iH running?
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:20 pm
Why? How many you think I have?
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:33 pm
So, pretty fair amount got done yesterday, with a lot of help from Steve, Lee, Dale, Dave, and neighbor Allan. Intake is on, trans and t-case washed, and a bunch of stuff moved.
I got the Scout hosed out today, so hopefully it'll be a mite less mess when the parts go back in.
I got the Scout hosed out today, so hopefully it'll be a mite less mess when the parts go back in.
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:08 am
Been doing some pretty in depth research on the care and feeding of the big lump that's going to live in the front of the thing. The subject at hand has been oil and filters. Pretty much not a biggy to some, but I'm dealing with a 35 year old engine that requires way different specs on stuff than you with newer engines, thus, some concern about the oil in particular! The thing is flat tappet design, with touchy cam bearings, and requires lots of zinc in the oil. So, guess what?! I get to run Rotella T in the critter. Meets the need, and Shell okays it for gas engines. After talking to Dale this weekend, gets me to wondering if'n some of you Jeep guys with flat tappet 4.0's might want to look into the oil you've been pouring in the top of your wizbangs! 1200ppm seems to be the magic number. Also gets me curious about Steve's 4.2. Gotta check on that.
Now, about the filters. Over on the IHPartsAmerica forum, there has been a major discussion about this, and one of the guys really dug into it. I'm not going to bore you with all the flow rates, pressure drop, media material, bypass valve pressure, burst pressure, etc. Makes my head hurt, so I'll just whup the conclusion on you and go from there. Baldwin B7311-MPG. It has high flow, major filtration and particulate retention, minimal pressure drop, better cold flow, 8psi bypass, about 3 times the burst pressure, and synthetic media. Also has 3/4-16 threads and is 7" long. Originally meant for the engines on Carrier HVAC units, it's designed to live in high impact environments, so just may be ideal to handle the pounding we can give a rig. Guess what I'm gonna use.
Hope some of you can use this info to help stave off problems down the road!
Now, about the filters. Over on the IHPartsAmerica forum, there has been a major discussion about this, and one of the guys really dug into it. I'm not going to bore you with all the flow rates, pressure drop, media material, bypass valve pressure, burst pressure, etc. Makes my head hurt, so I'll just whup the conclusion on you and go from there. Baldwin B7311-MPG. It has high flow, major filtration and particulate retention, minimal pressure drop, better cold flow, 8psi bypass, about 3 times the burst pressure, and synthetic media. Also has 3/4-16 threads and is 7" long. Originally meant for the engines on Carrier HVAC units, it's designed to live in high impact environments, so just may be ideal to handle the pounding we can give a rig. Guess what I'm gonna use.
Hope some of you can use this info to help stave off problems down the road!
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:41 pm
How recent is the info you have on the Rotella T specs?
A couple years ago when I was last researching this problem I recall that both Rotella T and Delo 400 had both reduced their zinc specs below the required level. I could be remembering wrong, but that might be something to check out.
I gave up trying to find the exact oil that had the required amount and have been running Valvoline VR1 racing oil (Not the racing only one, the one that still has the correct level of on-road detergents). I've been adding a bottle of ZDDP every oil change to make sure I'm covered there.
A couple years ago when I was last researching this problem I recall that both Rotella T and Delo 400 had both reduced their zinc specs below the required level. I could be remembering wrong, but that might be something to check out.
I gave up trying to find the exact oil that had the required amount and have been running Valvoline VR1 racing oil (Not the racing only one, the one that still has the correct level of on-road detergents). I've been adding a bottle of ZDDP every oil change to make sure I'm covered there.
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:53 pm
Looked at the Shell site this morning. Another oil the IH guys use is Swepco 306, which meets the SV-8 need for zinc. Doubt we'll find it local. IHPartsAmerica sells it for $8.40/qt 
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:25 pm
Yikes. Spendy stuff. Maybe I am remembering wrong, and my actual problem was not being able to find the Rotella T oil local.
I buy the Valvoline stuff for ~2.99 a quart. Bought a bunch of those ZDDP bottles in bulk. Think they came out to ~3 a bottle as well.
I buy the Valvoline stuff for ~2.99 a quart. Bought a bunch of those ZDDP bottles in bulk. Think they came out to ~3 a bottle as well.
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:24 pm
Amsoil, Lucas, etc. sell high zinc oil for flat tappet camshaft engines. It is expensive, but how often do you really need to change the oil in something that will only see a few hundred miles/year. . .maybe 1x per year?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:03 pm
Kendal has high Zink stuff aaw gets it for my old boss I do believe
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:54 pm
Grumpy wrote:Why? How many you think I have?
The correct answer is 3.
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:20 pm
SPR wrote:Grumpy wrote:Why? How many you think I have?
The correct answer is 3.
No, one's a Ford thingy...Don't count
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:49 pm
Lots of overthinking going on. 
Oil is easy, grab whatever oil is on sale and dump this in with it. Then head to D&R and grab some wix oil filters and be done with it. I can get you a screaming deal on filters from there if you come to your senses.
Oil is easy, grab whatever oil is on sale and dump this in with it. Then head to D&R and grab some wix oil filters and be done with it. I can get you a screaming deal on filters from there if you come to your senses.
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:14 pm
All the oil companies dropped their zinc content back in 2001-ish when the National standards on engine oil were changed (eco-nazi's were behind this). I had a 350 engine that flattened 6 lobes soon after a cam change because of it.
Rotella T can be had at Walmart. They consistently have the lowest price. It is a GREAT oil. One of the best on the market, that also doesnt negatively effect wet clutches (for motorcycle use).
9-to-9 in Pasco sells some "flat tappet engine break-in" additive that works well when breaking in a flat tappet engine (mostly zinc and other great heavy metals). After break-in, you should be able to use any oil on the shelf without issue.
The best oil? CLEAN OIL. Stop by my shop some time and see an engine I just changed out that was seriously plugged with carbon due to lack of oil changes (not my vehicle, someone elses).
Wanna know another secret? Keep your carb tuned well (air/fuel ratio). One of the reasons engine life has so dramatically improved since 1990-ish is due to fuel injection. When your engine runs rich, the fuel washes down the cylinder walls, dramatically increasing ring and cylinder wear. Then, the raw fuel goes to the oil, where it breaks it down very quickly, further increasing wear throughout the engine.
Rotella T can be had at Walmart. They consistently have the lowest price. It is a GREAT oil. One of the best on the market, that also doesnt negatively effect wet clutches (for motorcycle use).
9-to-9 in Pasco sells some "flat tappet engine break-in" additive that works well when breaking in a flat tappet engine (mostly zinc and other great heavy metals). After break-in, you should be able to use any oil on the shelf without issue.
The best oil? CLEAN OIL. Stop by my shop some time and see an engine I just changed out that was seriously plugged with carbon due to lack of oil changes (not my vehicle, someone elses).
Wanna know another secret? Keep your carb tuned well (air/fuel ratio). One of the reasons engine life has so dramatically improved since 1990-ish is due to fuel injection. When your engine runs rich, the fuel washes down the cylinder walls, dramatically increasing ring and cylinder wear. Then, the raw fuel goes to the oil, where it breaks it down very quickly, further increasing wear throughout the engine.
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:16 pm
Not to short sell your notion, Trashy, but I think I'll stick with the Rotella and Baldwin filters. I have NO interest in this engine spitting out any cam bearings at a bad time 
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:53 pm
Don't get me wrong, rotella T is good oil, dad has ran it in his dodge since he bought it 390k ago. I'm just saying there are other cheaper options that have the same results.
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:47 pm
White trash wrote:Lots of overthinking going on.
Oil is easy, grab whatever oil is on sale and dump this in with it. Then head to D&R and grab some wix oil filters and be done with it. I can get you a screaming deal on filters from there if you come to your senses.
Umm. . .overthinking? I need to ask for a raise when doing a Google search for Zinc Motor Oil is overthinking.
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:01 pm
Have check this site out. protec.com I know someone that is a dealer for it. I'm running it in my engine. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... s7H2KXrWIQ
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:51 pm
OldGreen wrote:White trash wrote:Lots of overthinking going on.
Oil is easy, grab whatever oil is on sale and dump this in with it. Then head to D&R and grab some wix oil filters and be done with it. I can get you a screaming deal on filters from there if you come to your senses.
Umm. . .overthinking? I need to ask for a raise when doing a Google search for Zinc Motor Oil is overthinking.
The overthinking I'm speaking of is mainly in reference too the guy that researched the filters on the IH site. That's way too much thinking when it comes to an engine made when one of the best selling filters was a housing that you'd drop a roll of toilet paper into to serve as the media.
Rotella T or cheap with zinc additive and a quality standard sized filter will make the engine last for decades. Large filters are good if you never change your oil but not needed at all if you actually change your oil more than twice a decade.
Grumpy if you want to get really serious you can get oil sample bottles from biggg truck to send in and have it analyzed. That is solid piece of mind based on science not intardnet banter.
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:11 am
Jim's Pacific does oil samples?
I dont know what they charge, but I have mine done with Blackstone Labs. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
They do an awesome job! Lots of great info from them when you do an analysis. You will know for SURE if the oil you are using is causing excess wear in the engine or not.
I dont know what they charge, but I have mine done with Blackstone Labs. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
They do an awesome job! Lots of great info from them when you do an analysis. You will know for SURE if the oil you are using is causing excess wear in the engine or not.
Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:54 am
So, here's a notion that jumped up for apparent reason...Given that this critter will be primarily a trail rig that gets towed to the hills with minimal town miles, what's the collective thoughts on rebuilding the 727 for manual shifting?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:09 am
Grumpy wrote:So, here's a notion that jumped up for apparent reason...Given that this critter will be primarily a trail rig that gets towed to the hills with minimal town miles, what's the collective thoughts on rebuilding the 727 for manual shifting?
Can't you already manually shift into and out of all the gears on a 727? My more modern version (32 RH) was like that. P-R-N-3-2-1
I put a rotary switch in my jeep that overrides the AW4 computer so that I can manually select and lock into whatever gear I want. I like it on the trail, if your IH trans only has R-N-D-L it might be worth it to get second gear. Sometimes on hill climbs it's nice not having the trans shift at the wrong time, and controlling engine braking is nice as well.
How's the 727 work right now, and what gear shift positions does it have?
Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:21 am
It's set up for all 3 gears on the shifter. As this isn't a "modern" trans, I have no idea if it'll shift up when I don't want it to. Gotta maybe look into that...Got good comments from PAW and Terry W. on American Transmission, so I think I'll give them a holler shortly and get their notions on it...
Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:46 am
i would make it full manual only if you dont plan to drive it around much at all, a full manual valve body would get old quick if you drive it around much, although i have thought about going that way with my pickup (also thinking about switching to manual) just depends on if you mind shifting ith when your cruising around town
Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:00 am
Yeah, I wouldn't make it manual only if that's what you're thinking. In some situations, especially in the snow, it's nice to have it shift automatically, keeps your momentum and traction steady.
If it's not going to upshift on you when you don't want it to (mine wouldn't, it stayed in whatever gear I selected) then I'd go with a standard rebuild.
If it's not going to upshift on you when you don't want it to (mine wouldn't, it stayed in whatever gear I selected) then I'd go with a standard rebuild.