Flatty - The Home Alone Build

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bobracing
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Postby bobracing » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:59 pm

First thing that comes to mind is a older Pinto carb with less emission stuff.
We alway took the heating lines off the intake too. Sure it will make it a little cold blooded but isn't needed to run.
Also a FI intake will work too, with an carb adapter.
We also ran holly 350 2 barrels, but that might be a bit much for what your doing, but did sound nice a 8k.
James
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79chevy39.5's
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Postby 79chevy39.5's » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:17 pm

Full bad assery....fabricated intake manifold

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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:27 pm

bobracing wrote:First thing that comes to mind is a older Pinto carb with less emission stuff.
We alway took the heating lines off the intake too. Sure it will make it a little cold blooded but isn't needed to run.
Also a FI intake will work too, with an carb adapter.
We also ran holly 350 2 barrels, but that might be a bit much for what your doing, but did sound nice a 8k.


So can I simply pull the cover and hoses off that heat exchanger outfit below the EGR, and make a block off plate just like the EGR plate? That would be a good start, but really need a carb without the choke in that orientation...

As for a fabricated manifold, been there and done that so it's not off the table 8)
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...
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79chevy39.5's
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Postby 79chevy39.5's » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:55 pm

Short runners better tq with open plenum design........

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Postby 79chevy39.5's » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:58 pm

Short runners better tq with open plenum design........

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Lurch
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Postby Lurch » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:17 pm

Esslinger has several different options for the 2.3l

http://www.esslingeracing.com/contents.htm#
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Wrench
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Postby Wrench » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:38 am

I run a later model fuel-injection manifold (long runners) on my Jeep 2.5 with a carb adapter. It does not atomize the fuel well with no manifold heater. Fuel mileage sucks and I have to run it rich to get it to run well. I'll be switching to an older heated/short runner/large plenum manifold soon to see what the real difference will be.

Chatter from other experts I know has led me to believe that there really is no noticeable detrimental effect on an intake manifold heater for a carbureted engine. The heater greatly enhances driveability (fuel atomization) at low throttle settings in cooler weather, and the air is moving so fast at high rpm that there is no noticeable loss in peak power.

Honestly, for what you are going to be doing with it, either:
-heated intake manifold that gives you the clearance you need
-fuel injection. I have heard great things about Mega Squirt.
Last edited by Wrench on Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul
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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:41 am

Well, I may end up being able to live with the heat exchanger setup, as it ends up slightly below the brake master cylinder, I'll just have to get creative with my hard lines and the prop valve location. I was wanting to eliminate it just to keep things tidy... It's mainly the carb that I have an issue with at this point, as it's hard into the booster and that needs to be addressed. I can certainly live with a manual choke carb of some sort, heck I've already got a choke cable and a push/pull knob appropriately labeled "CHOKE" that looks factory. Because it was :lol:
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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Wrench
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Postby Wrench » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:23 pm

Any way to change the engine mounts and rotate the engine a tad for clearance?
Paul
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79chevy39.5's
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Postby 79chevy39.5's » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:16 pm

A little tilt goes a long way

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Postby Jay W » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:05 pm

This is an inline 4 correct? How about shifting it to the passenger side a bit.

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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:30 pm

The pictures I showed earlier were already at absolutely best case scenario... That means pushing the drivetrain to the passenger side 1 1/2" and forward ~2 1/2". Rotating the drivetrain wouldn't really gain me anything in that spot either, as the interference is pretty much at the center/pivot point anyways. If I can't find a different carb setup altogether, I may have to look at dumping my dreams of power brakes and going with a manual master cylinder, but that also means starting over with a different pedal pack, which I currently do not possess. :?
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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SPR
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Postby SPR » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:15 pm

Would a V6 clear better than the 4 banger?
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White trash
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Postby White trash » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:22 pm

Either move the booster over a couple inches and build a dog legged pushrod or swap to a smaller OD booster. James has a supra booster I gave hima couple years ago that'd probably fit. I have a complete Toyota set of pedals that'd work fantastic too if you need them.

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Chrispy
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Postby Chrispy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:53 am

Could do hydro brake setup it is smaller then a booster.
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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:25 pm

I may have just blown my own mind :shock:

What if I go from this:

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To this:

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I turned the carb 180* on the mounting flange... It physically fits except that the vacuum line that runs from the EGR plate to the PCV valve interferes with the throttle linkage, but I can easily block off that vacuum port and find manifold vacuum elsewhere for the PCV system... It will also make it a touch more difficult to access the mixture and idle screws, but I can live with that. So, the question for the masses is, what are the negative effects of having the fuel bowl BEHIND the carb rather than in front?
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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Jafo
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Postby Jafo » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:57 pm

In all reality, I don't think the intake is directional, as long as it receives the fuel/air mixture. I really don't think you will have any problems unless its related to the bowl on inclines.
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Lurch
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Postby Lurch » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:54 pm

Is that the same carb they run on the old brono II's? If so I remember Don couldn't keep the thing running going down hill but would run great facing up.
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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:26 pm

So I looked things over a little closer tonight. Turns out the manifold has slightly different diameter ports that effectively dictate the orientation of the carb :? However, there really isn't anything magical about a choke setup, so I'm thinking I will pull the electric choke setup off and devise a rocker arm setup to simply convert it to a manual choke. This will also clean up that mess of 5/8" heater hoses that were so close to the master cylinder 8)

The only real question now is concerning the water jacket in the bottom of the intake. It's open to the head, but I'm not sure if it needs an outlet for proper circulation or if I can simply plug the port that used to run up to choke assembly?
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:28 pm

Got a wrench and 15 minutes?!

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If you don't get that reference, don't worry - we probably don't have enough in common to sustain a loving relationship anyways, so... :lol:

As it turns out, the Pinto swap is extremely sound in theory. In reality however, it's a slightly different story. Turns out, Pintos just aren't as plentiful in the wrecking yards as they were back in like 1982, and as such finding the necessary widgets to make the swap successful can be a bit, well, challenging. It's not like building a JK where you can whip out the credit card and head down to Quadracrap and find absolutely everything you'll never use. Instead, each little piece required is like a gem hunt in the wild... To that end, I owe a huge debt of gratitude to James and his old racing buddy, as they have an impressive collection of Pinto paraphernalia that (finally) allowed me to get this swap off dead center. It was touch and go for a while there, but finding the throw out bearing release arm last weekend was the last critical piece in the puzzle. Once that was found, the Pinto swap plan was upgraded from "penciled in" status to full on ink, and the order for the transmission adapter was placed through Novak and a slew of other parts were ordered from Rock Auto. Brown Santa dropped a few off yesterday and late this afternoon, so it was time to get to work...

Since I had already mocked the engine into place a few times, it was time to pull the body off to get a handle on the new drivetrain mounts. It will simply be easier to mock things up without the body in the way:

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Now it was time to mock up the adapter. First came removal of the original transmission bearing retainer, replacement of the felt seal, and installation of the new adapter bearing retainer:

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And now, what had up until last weekend been the Achilles heal of this program, the throw out bearing and release arm!!

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And here is a crummy picture to show the clearance between the front driveshaft and the starter. Once the weight of the motor and body are back on the chassis, it will drop ~1 3/4" up front, but as it sets I've got over 7" of vertical travel at the axle yoke before I have an interference issue with the bellhousing. I'm pretty sure I can live with ~4" of uptravel once the dust settles.

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So, that's where we stand as of this afternoon. Next up will be to hook the engine and transmission together and get the new mounts all fabricated. Going to be slow going for a while due to some prior engagements, but I'll try to put in a couple hours every chance I get 8)
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:04 pm

Managed to get about 2 hours in the shop this afternoon... After a brief come to jeebus meeting with the guy in charge of keeping the shop clean ( :oops: ), it was time to marry up the Pinto motor to the Willys transmission for the first time, and mock it into place to fully assess the situation:

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Plenty of room for the steering shaft:

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Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut... Going to have to do something about the power steering pump location. It fits beside the shock hoops just fine, but doesn't fit inside the fender. Luckily, I've got some experience in the field of designing/fabricating power steering pump mounts :roll: :lol:
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:25 am

Time to put the body back on for a quick test fit before diving into the motor mounts:

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Looks like it'll work, so hopefully this weekend I can get some motor mounts fabricated and burned in, and get the transmission crossmember permanently relocated/mounted as well...
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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tobyw
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Postby tobyw » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:55 pm

With the LJ pretty well tidied up at this point, it’s time to turn my attention back to the flatty… It seems my poor flatty and gross neglect often go hand in hand, but I honestly try to work on it whenever I can :oops:

Anyhow, back to work on getting the drivetrain mounted. Whoever said flat fenders aren’t very big was dead wrong. Here is pictorial evidence of one taking up a solid 30+ linear feet of floor space…

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After a few more mockups doing the body on/off shuffle, I was finally able to clean up the frame rails, make some doubler plates, and burn in some motor mounts:

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With the drivetrain mounting handled, it was time to get back to finishing up the rollcage. I had been having second thoughts about the rear section of the cage since the day it was bent up, and my OCD finally got the better of me… The compound bend at the B-pillar just didn’t come out as dramatic as I had hoped, which led to the upper section of the C-legs being wider than the lower mounting points. So from the back, the rear cage legs looked like a ‘V’, resulting it a mushroom sort of appearance. I hated it… So, out came the sawzall and the rear section of the cage was sliced out. I made some very slight mitre cuts on the tubing, welded up the circumference, and laid it back into the B-pillar fishmouth. Then I put the B-spreader back in place, further encapsulating the miter welds, and I will likely end up running a couple of gusset plates as well just for good measure. At any rate, the final step was to section 4â€
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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OldGreen
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Postby OldGreen » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:22 pm

Bless you and your OCD.

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tobyw
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Re: Flatty - The Home Alone Build

Postby tobyw » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:02 pm

Pretty sure I pointed out that neglect and my poor flatty go hand in hand, but I've been able to sneak in a few hours here and there over the past couple of years... Unless anyone has any specific requests, I will spare you the gory details and just leave this here for now:

https://youtu.be/43n9Wo1FsHk

8) 8) 8)
Yep, I've wheeled one of those, too...

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