Grumpy wrote:Believe me Lance, Trashy has BTDT more than once, and has the scars to prove it...
Dave I do believe, but no horse is no horse.
2007 JK Unlimited Saharicon... (aka Julia)
-
Livin4Today
- Posts: 1054
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:23 am
- Location: Kennewick, WA
Dave I do believe, but no horse is no horse.
Lance
Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...
2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com
Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...
2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com
-
Grumpy
- Peak Putters' Land-Use Coordinator
- Posts: 6049
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 am
- Location: Kennewick, WA
Hello, I don't have a horse right now that works either!
don't make me any less a wheeler. I've been in and around this game almost since the beginning, so I figure guys like Trash and me still have some clues as to how it's done...A guy should take advice that's well intentioned, study on it, then make up his mind.
don't make me any less a wheeler. I've been in and around this game almost since the beginning, so I figure guys like Trash and me still have some clues as to how it's done...A guy should take advice that's well intentioned, study on it, then make up his mind.
Dave
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.
-
Livin4Today
- Posts: 1054
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:23 am
- Location: Kennewick, WA
Grumpy wrote:Hello, I don't have a horse right now that works either!
don't make me any less a wheeler. I've been in and around this game almost since the beginning, so I figure guys like Trash and me still have some clues as to how it's done...A guy should take advice that's well intentioned, study on it, then make up his mind.
Agreed, it's easier to take without the useless patronizing attitude, is all I'm saying... And you are incorrect, you do have a horse in the race as you are an "Active" member of the club and community...
Oh and with the exception of Toby and a few others the speculations made can be frustrating... If you don't have a JK, haven't had and never will have one, how can you speculate the dos and donts other than the general ideals?
I'm learning my rig the only way I can, through the knowledge of others (JK Owners/Wheelers) and trial & error. I joined the club to learn from all of you, which I admittedly do (at least those whose eyes I can look into), just don't cotton to a guy behind a screen name typing out condescending BS.
Hence horse in the race...
Lance
Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...
2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com
Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...
2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com
-
White trash
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
- Location: El Pasco
One need not own a full sized rig on big heavy tires with half ton axles to know they aren't the hot ticket for longevity. 
I take exception to the "condescending" attitude. Don't take my lack of stroking your ego and telling you that tossing another thousand dollars at your axles is a good idea as me looking down my nose at you. I have broken bigger parts than you have with less HP so I understand when a big expensive mmistake is about to go down.
But feel free to disregard my words, they don't mean anything because I don't currently wheel.
I take exception to the "condescending" attitude. Don't take my lack of stroking your ego and telling you that tossing another thousand dollars at your axles is a good idea as me looking down my nose at you. I have broken bigger parts than you have with less HP so I understand when a big expensive mmistake is about to go down.
But feel free to disregard my words, they don't mean anything because I don't currently wheel.
-
Grumpy
- Peak Putters' Land-Use Coordinator
- Posts: 6049
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 am
- Location: Kennewick, WA
You two want to come over here on neutral ground? I have most of a gallon of Pendleton 
Dave
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.
-
White trash
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
- Location: El Pasco
-
White trash
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
- Location: El Pasco
Let's clear a couple of things up:
1. JK owners, as a group, typically don't have a horse in their own race. . .to use your analogy. They think the platform is "special" as a group. . .and somehow different. Even though the basic suspension configuration has been in use since the 1984 Cherokee and live axles have been in use since the invention of the wheel. . . Yes, I just perpetuated a stereotype. It is called that for a reason. You need not think I was applying it to you. I hope not.
2. The specific "platform" is only a basis on which to build. The fact that it carries a JK emblem or a Toyota or a Radio Flyer or whatever. . .means absolutely ZERO. If you take any vehicle of similar size, weight and configuration, the ratios and ideas are equally applicable across the board.
Now, the idea of putting in an automatic locking carrier as an upgrade to avoid breakage. This is a "double edged sword" in the real World. Conventional wisdom is that lockers are for traction and not for strength. D44 carriers aren't known to be weak in the first place, but, if a person has the wheels spinning and shock loads the "non traction" side with a giant tire and a bunch of weight, the spiders are going to break into neat little chunks and start a pretty cool chain reaction that ends up being metal soup in a broth of gear oil. Now, if a person were hammering the throttle like that ONLY to keep forward progress because of a lack of traction, then a locker and the commensurate added traction can lead to a lower application of skinny pedal and/or less wheel spin in the same situation. However, for many situations where the driving style is dictated by the right foot of the driver, the locker just makes it so other things break first. Typically, it is an axle shaft or a driveline/joint, but the gear set and the locker itself have been known to grenade as well.
So, my point here is two-fold:
1. Listen to people with experience. It doesn't have to be with a JK. The fact is that the platform, while it is very cool, attracted an absolute crapload of people that only know and regurgitate what they also hear online and then spend their time justifying their decisions by trying to get the rest of us to make the same ones. (by the way, actual facial expressions, infection, body language, and sarcasm don't come through on the internet, so keep to the facts and don't let a perception of attitude get under your skin. I'm a reformed internet thug. . .take it from me).
2. Spending money on the axles you have isn't a good idea in your use case (rookie driver, huge tires). Period. The end. Don't do it. Run away. Sell the Jeep, send a check to (insert D60/Ford 9"/D70 company).. .whatever you have to do to NOT polish those axles. Now, conversely, since you have the locker coming, that's a GOOD thing as long as you adjust your driving style appropriately. The question you have to ask is, "how will I do that?" Driving effectively in our sport is 100% counterintuitive. So. . .It is a combination of seat time (good on you there) and paying close/careful attention to the guy in front of you.
Also, realize this: for most 4x4 platforms, the leap from 35 to 37" tires requires a HUGE commitment that is far beyond the cost of the tires. The massive leverage created makes the suspension and its mounting points very weak (even aftermarket stuff), it is very hard on transmissions, mounts and the poor little motor. Not to mention the cooling system.
Trust me on this. . .I have several horses in your race. I defer to Trash on the "what parts to put where" conversation and to Roy for "how to wheel a washing machine". . .but don't get caught up on your platform. It just doesn't matter.
As a matter of suggestion though. If you truly want to make 37s work with your Jeep. Your front end is probably squared away for a long while as it sits if you keep a steady right foot. A D60 or 9" would work well in the back. Automatic lockers (like a grizzly) work well in the rear because it is one less thing to remember to deal with on the trail. I'd also throw a truss or something on it to keep it all straight under the shock loads. Additionally, some beefing of the mounting points on the axles and frame wouldn't hurt. . .
But. My real and primary advise is always the same: be safe and burn gas. Lots and lots of gas.
1. JK owners, as a group, typically don't have a horse in their own race. . .to use your analogy. They think the platform is "special" as a group. . .and somehow different. Even though the basic suspension configuration has been in use since the 1984 Cherokee and live axles have been in use since the invention of the wheel. . . Yes, I just perpetuated a stereotype. It is called that for a reason. You need not think I was applying it to you. I hope not.
2. The specific "platform" is only a basis on which to build. The fact that it carries a JK emblem or a Toyota or a Radio Flyer or whatever. . .means absolutely ZERO. If you take any vehicle of similar size, weight and configuration, the ratios and ideas are equally applicable across the board.
Now, the idea of putting in an automatic locking carrier as an upgrade to avoid breakage. This is a "double edged sword" in the real World. Conventional wisdom is that lockers are for traction and not for strength. D44 carriers aren't known to be weak in the first place, but, if a person has the wheels spinning and shock loads the "non traction" side with a giant tire and a bunch of weight, the spiders are going to break into neat little chunks and start a pretty cool chain reaction that ends up being metal soup in a broth of gear oil. Now, if a person were hammering the throttle like that ONLY to keep forward progress because of a lack of traction, then a locker and the commensurate added traction can lead to a lower application of skinny pedal and/or less wheel spin in the same situation. However, for many situations where the driving style is dictated by the right foot of the driver, the locker just makes it so other things break first. Typically, it is an axle shaft or a driveline/joint, but the gear set and the locker itself have been known to grenade as well.
So, my point here is two-fold:
1. Listen to people with experience. It doesn't have to be with a JK. The fact is that the platform, while it is very cool, attracted an absolute crapload of people that only know and regurgitate what they also hear online and then spend their time justifying their decisions by trying to get the rest of us to make the same ones. (by the way, actual facial expressions, infection, body language, and sarcasm don't come through on the internet, so keep to the facts and don't let a perception of attitude get under your skin. I'm a reformed internet thug. . .take it from me).
2. Spending money on the axles you have isn't a good idea in your use case (rookie driver, huge tires). Period. The end. Don't do it. Run away. Sell the Jeep, send a check to (insert D60/Ford 9"/D70 company).. .whatever you have to do to NOT polish those axles. Now, conversely, since you have the locker coming, that's a GOOD thing as long as you adjust your driving style appropriately. The question you have to ask is, "how will I do that?" Driving effectively in our sport is 100% counterintuitive. So. . .It is a combination of seat time (good on you there) and paying close/careful attention to the guy in front of you.
Also, realize this: for most 4x4 platforms, the leap from 35 to 37" tires requires a HUGE commitment that is far beyond the cost of the tires. The massive leverage created makes the suspension and its mounting points very weak (even aftermarket stuff), it is very hard on transmissions, mounts and the poor little motor. Not to mention the cooling system.
Trust me on this. . .I have several horses in your race. I defer to Trash on the "what parts to put where" conversation and to Roy for "how to wheel a washing machine". . .but don't get caught up on your platform. It just doesn't matter.
As a matter of suggestion though. If you truly want to make 37s work with your Jeep. Your front end is probably squared away for a long while as it sits if you keep a steady right foot. A D60 or 9" would work well in the back. Automatic lockers (like a grizzly) work well in the rear because it is one less thing to remember to deal with on the trail. I'd also throw a truss or something on it to keep it all straight under the shock loads. Additionally, some beefing of the mounting points on the axles and frame wouldn't hurt. . .
But. My real and primary advise is always the same: be safe and burn gas. Lots and lots of gas.
-
Toolegit86
- Posts: 421
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:56 am
seen alot of JK guys having issues with the 538s mostly due to shock load or not installing them correctly. i think building the 44s is a decent ideal for your wheeling. a auto locker is hands down one of the best ways to get away from d44 spider issues.. then shafts. ive seen alot of broken drivers side shafts...
i like this build.. and now i finally got the go ahead to build mine (sold my evo) i am basically starting out like you did.. d30 front and d44 rear. just going to keep it simple for now untill i find a set of tons or a 9inc/hp44.
have you looked into a rocktrac t-case usually find them on ebay for 1400 or cheaper on e-repairables thats going to be one of my first upgrades. mostly because it kinda helps with the skinny pedal issues.
i was pretty sad last weekend.. missed out on a good deal ford hp 60 font with coil mounts and d60 rear 456 gears f/r for 700 that would have been a perfect snag.
i like this build.. and now i finally got the go ahead to build mine (sold my evo) i am basically starting out like you did.. d30 front and d44 rear. just going to keep it simple for now untill i find a set of tons or a 9inc/hp44.
have you looked into a rocktrac t-case usually find them on ebay for 1400 or cheaper on e-repairables thats going to be one of my first upgrades. mostly because it kinda helps with the skinny pedal issues.
i was pretty sad last weekend.. missed out on a good deal ford hp 60 font with coil mounts and d60 rear 456 gears f/r for 700 that would have been a perfect snag.
Camaro turbo lsx th400
06 Cummins "racetruck"
tj 1ton 40's 5.3 build
509 Crawlers on the facebook
06 Cummins "racetruck"
tj 1ton 40's 5.3 build
509 Crawlers on the facebook
Hey there Grumpy, I'll drink the Pendleton with you!!! 
So just weighing in, as the "rookiest" driver of them all.... Everyone has well intended advice laced with a little testosterone, we would love to do a full upgrade right now, but the recent front end build and RV purchase makes us a little short on funds. It has to be fixed now, it is a daily driver, but within budget.....little sappy girl talk...but love you guys and really love wheeling....so these fixes will get me to three ball Halloween weekend where someone better do some shots with me!
So just weighing in, as the "rookiest" driver of them all.... Everyone has well intended advice laced with a little testosterone, we would love to do a full upgrade right now, but the recent front end build and RV purchase makes us a little short on funds. It has to be fixed now, it is a daily driver, but within budget.....little sappy girl talk...but love you guys and really love wheeling....so these fixes will get me to three ball Halloween weekend where someone better do some shots with me!
Again. . .love the Grizzly Locker and it will certainly fix the spider issue. . .
But. . .
http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64585
Czek it out mang!! That looks like a winner especially if you already have a programmer that can calibrate the speedo.
Neat shiz right there.
(secretly lobbying for Lance's next set of tires to be 40s)
But. . .
http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64585
Czek it out mang!! That looks like a winner especially if you already have a programmer that can calibrate the speedo.
Neat shiz right there.
(secretly lobbying for Lance's next set of tires to be 40s)
-
79chevy39.5's
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:48 pm
OldGreen wrote:Again. . .love the Grizzly Locker and it will certainly fix the spider issue. . .
But. . .
http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64585
Czek it out mang!! That looks like a winner especially if you already have a programmer that can calibrate the speedo.
Neat shiz right there.
(secretly lobbying for Lance's next set of tires to be 40s)
WINNER WINNER, I LOVE CHICKEN DINNER! Wait... Some thing like that...
Roman wrote:OldGreen wrote:Again. . .love the Grizzly Locker and it will certainly fix the spider issue. . .
But. . .
http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64585
Czek it out mang!! That looks like a winner especially if you already have a programmer that can calibrate the speedo.
Neat shiz right there.
(secretly lobbying for Lance's next set of tires to be 40s)
WINNER WINNER, I LOVE CHICKEN DINNER! Wait... Some thing like that...
If you get the chance, go to Mrs. Knott's Chicken at Knott's Berry Farm. That is a GOOD Shikin DINNA!!!! It made me an omnomnomnivor!!!
-
Livin4Today
- Posts: 1054
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:23 am
- Location: Kennewick, WA
Pardon me while I wipe the crow outta my mouth!
Okay, many of you are correct in that I need better parts ie axles, however, to keep rolling I'm doing an upgrade that should work in the interim.
We pulled the shafts tonight and noticed some spline damage...
So the temporary step to keep us running (read step up, not end all)
ARB and 35 Spline Chromos.
We will be looking at the info graciously provided re Corporate 14 BB and/or D-60 as our end run build... Understand that getting to that point will take time and money, that we don't have enough of either at the moment.
As it means two axles, some machining, gears, lockers, hubs, wheels and probably reworking our new driveshafts for beefier joints.
So instead of having a slightly upgraded JK D-44 with a mechanical locker to sell (maybe next spring/summer) we'll have a set of beefed ARB w/35 Spline JK D44 axles for sale.
Is it polishing a turd in my circumstance, perhaps, but it'll keep us on the road through the winter. Next spring/summer we'll look at installing our end run set-up. This gives us time to earn the funds, acquire the parts and do our build right (yeah I know the third time)... Thanks for the link OG!
Yeah, yeah, you told me so!
There I said it now let's move on...
Okay, many of you are correct in that I need better parts ie axles, however, to keep rolling I'm doing an upgrade that should work in the interim.
We pulled the shafts tonight and noticed some spline damage...
So the temporary step to keep us running (read step up, not end all)
ARB and 35 Spline Chromos.
We will be looking at the info graciously provided re Corporate 14 BB and/or D-60 as our end run build... Understand that getting to that point will take time and money, that we don't have enough of either at the moment.
As it means two axles, some machining, gears, lockers, hubs, wheels and probably reworking our new driveshafts for beefier joints.
So instead of having a slightly upgraded JK D-44 with a mechanical locker to sell (maybe next spring/summer) we'll have a set of beefed ARB w/35 Spline JK D44 axles for sale.
Is it polishing a turd in my circumstance, perhaps, but it'll keep us on the road through the winter. Next spring/summer we'll look at installing our end run set-up. This gives us time to earn the funds, acquire the parts and do our build right (yeah I know the third time)... Thanks for the link OG!
Yeah, yeah, you told me so!
There I said it now let's move on...
Lance
Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...
2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com
Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...
2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com
-
Livin4Today
- Posts: 1054
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:23 am
- Location: Kennewick, WA
Wrench wrote:My neighbor has a 14 bolt cab & chassis axle (63.5" wms-wms) he would like to part with. It is not complete, but a good start.
I also know a machinist in town who has experience installing the tummy-tuck kit available for the 14 bolt.
I'm interested, however my funds are now tight, still like a looksy though...
Lance
Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...
2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com
Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...
2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com
Return to “Projects and Build-Ups”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests