Yet another slow build thread. . .

[bobracing]

"I can tow bar to a similar rig in front of me in the deep snow. . .chugga chugga chooo chooooo "

Heard stories of this and most ended with bent tow bars and very stuck rigs. Might think about making it a "push" bar that lines up with other bumpers or spare tires. Maybe run padding (UHMW?) down the underside/front or something as redneck as carpet.

You going to sleeve the bumper? where the bolts go thru?

[OldGreen]

"I can tow bar to a similar rig in front of me in the deep snow. . .chugga chugga chooo chooooo "

Heard stories of this and most ended with bent tow bars and very stuck rigs. Might think about making it a "push" bar that lines up with other bumpers or spare tires. Maybe run padding (UHMW?) down the underside/front or something as redneck as carpet.

You going to sleeve the bumper? where the bolts go thru?

Yep. . .I went out and got some 3/4" .120 wall HREW to make this happen. The sleeved holes on the bumper will get a bunch of different uses with stuff bolted on with 1/2" grade 8 bolts. For those of you that buy metal locally, the round tube at twin cities is very high quality and typically has no internal seem like others sometimes do so you can use it for sleeving with little or no cleanup. This tube, with .005 clearance for a 1/2 bolt, needs none.

Now that you mention it, one of those things might be a push bar of some sort. The big issue is that it has to clear a spare tire.

[79chevy39.5's]

or push directly on the spare

[OldGreen]

That works about 50% of the time, but only when the spare is mounted to the frame...NOT the body. . .

[79chevy39.5's]

.......meh then you just push on the body too

[OldGreen]

Holes are sleeved with 3/4" x .120 round tube . .


smooved out:

[OldGreen]

So. . .winch. . .I figured that the new XJ will need one and it won't hurt O to have one for the rest of the winter. . .so. . .I, as usual, changed plans. I was going to put a receiver in the bumper so I had the option of a cradle, but, well, one thing led to another. It all started with that winch plate that JKLance gave me offn' his old TJ.



One of the requirements was that it had to have no real effect on approach angle. It also had to fit a variety of winches.



Note the little bend in the fairlead mounting area. . .that's gone now. I straightened it out before I put the fairlead on .

I decided that the gussets could double as recovery points (I actually only drilled a hole in one of them.. .but whatever. . .

This is a piece of 3/8 that I welded to a piece of 3/16. So, the gussets/recover points are 9/16 thick.



Flippity flap action:



Burned it all up. . .



I skipped taking pics of cutting up the grill and header panel, but here is how it came out. . .



Yes. . .that is a short drum winch. If it survives the winter I'll probably put synthetic rope on it and run it on the rear of the Green XJ. I had to drill new holes in the plate for the smaller body so I still have the normal 10x4.5" pattern in there for a regular sized winch. Seems to work fine and for $200 I figured I couldn't lose. Anyway, the best part of the story is that I did this all while teaching a class, working my normal job, and I even went to Will's football game last night. . .all in time to be ready for the Assault on Aardvark tomorrow at O'Dark:30. The only problem is that I didn't have time to paint it. . .so.. .probably have to sand it when I get back and throw a coat of rustoleum on it.

Yeah, yeah. . .I'm not a professional fabricator. . .but I'm proud of the fact that I am learning. Arts and Crafts Day. . .LMAO. . .

[OldGreen]

Test tow went very well. The WK2 pulls without issue and Orville follows nicely. Of course, this set up will all get transferred to the Green XJ over the winter, but O makes a nice test platform and, well. ..he has one more LONG A$$ road trip left in him before he moves on.

I got the tow bar very close to level. The only thing that I don't like is how much slop is built in to the tow bar. It is no issue at speed but starting and stopping make some clunks. After the Turkey Day trip to Utah, I may make some mods to the bar itself to shore up the tolerances. I put about 40 or so test miles on it and noticed no issues other than that. 15mg for the test loop (Meadow Springs to Rd68 to 395 to I82 to Benton City and back home on Kennedy). Cruise control on 63 and forget about it. . .

[Roman]

Hey Jim...


http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/154-0706-junkyard-dana-44-axle/

[OldGreen]

I have no beef with that concept. . .

Except, that to run 35s on a D30, all I need is a carrier, a set of 4.56s w/install kit and maybe a set of chromo shafts if I start breaking the stockers. A little steel for some reinforcement and I'm still in it for WAY less than half of that D44.

For the rear, the 31spline 8.8 sounds like the right call since my 8.25 only has the 27 spline shafts.

So. . .front and rear with gears, install and a new rear locker are +/- LESS $$ and very near strength than just the front D44. I'm not afraid of the HP30 except for the ujoints and the long side axle tube but I can fix both of those things easy enough since I have 2 sets of big u-joint shafts and a skinny wheel that knows the address to the metal store.

So. . .the front end "build" will consist of the above plus a full compliment of spicer joints (u, ball, etc) and brand new unit bearings.

HOWEVER> > >the NEXT step in the build is the rear frame section, front frame section and floor patching in preparation for the cage. THEN I'll dig in to suspension/running gear. I already have my rear springs picked out

BTW: MOST of my build plan is a result of the "Great Orville Experiment". What worked, what almost worked, what sucked and what got smashed into trees/rocks based on the way and places that I wheel.

So: Safety, structure, recovery, COG, weight, angles, traction, quickness, handling, dampening, reliability, ergonomics/comfort, COST, and a little cool factor (my definition only) along with a chance to let me learn a bunch of new stuff are the decision makers.

BTW: Orville is for sale. Today's price is $10k. It will drop over time until April 1 when V3.0 is launched.

[Boyscout]

Except, that to run 35s on a D30, all I need is a carrier, a set of 4.56s w/install kit and maybe a set of chromo shafts if I start breaking the stockers. A little steel for some reinforcement and I'm still in it for WAY less than half of that D44.

I would agree with that.

[OldGreen]

So. . .today. . .I decided to start on the body work.

The plan is to put on about 3" of lift and clear 35s with as much up travel as possible.

The tires in the pics are just for mockup. I may actually order up a set just like them to see if they work, but these ones stay with the race truck so they won't move out of the driveway on the XJ. . .I'm also not going to run 7" rims. . .they'll be 10". . .

The trim. Still have a ways to go but I won't do the final finish work until I get the new flares in a few weeks.



and. . .35s with NO LIFT. You can see that I need a little nip/tuck on the back edge. I also flattened the pinch seam.



and the rear. the trick here is to have a two door XJ and to follow the OUTSIDE of the factory flare. Some choose to rebuild the factory inner fender, but I chose to cut it out. It will get built after the cage is in.



Fenders mocked. Again, I'm getting new ones and they will need to be trimmed, but they still swallow the 35s without issue.



the SECRET to putting rear TJ flares on the front of an XJ is to swap sides. . .Driver's rear goes on Passenger Front. Conversely, the passenger rear gets a passenger rear. Simple?

Other side so you can see the initial cuts.







In theory, a person could run them stock height. . .but that would delete most of your uptravel. With a 3" lift in the front and 2" or 2.5 in the rear, I'll have more uptravel that I do with Orville and only be about an inch taller overall. and a few hundred pounds lighter.

Currently leaning towards MT/Rs for tires other options are another set of Grabbers or Coopers if I am being cheap. . .but we'll see!!! For now, I'll slowly peck away at body cleaning and reinforcing. . .Gonna get serious about throwing stuff at it in January.

[SPR]

Nice build Jimmy. You put a lot of thought into this. Good work.

[OldGreen]

Nice build Jimmy. You put a lot of thought into this. Good work.

Thanks Steve. If anyone actually knew the number of hours I have into planning, they would know that this may be the most expensive $200 XJ in history.

[Wrench]

Thanks Steve. If anyone actually knew the number of hours I have into planning, they would know that this may be the most expensive $200 XJ in history.

Maybe.

[Wrench]

Jimmy,
if you plan to fit 35's, you will have contact issues with the front inner rear fender wells to the point it will limit your steering. I moved my axle forward about 1.5" for the 33's to have no contact. You can bend over or remove the pinch weld, which will help a little. You will also have contact at full flex with the tire on the bulge above the spring pad.

I'm probably singin' to the choir, though...

For the front part of the inner fender contact, I plan to make something like this: http://www.tntcustoms.com/Jeep_Cherokee ... anels.aspx

[OldGreen]

How funny. That was the topic of discussion this morning. both the need for about an 1" more wheelbase and to do something about that hump.

I like the TNT idea but it doesn't look like it would be too hard to recreate with a torch and a hammer. . .heh. . .

[Wrench]

How funny. That was the topic of discussion this morning. both the need for about an 1" more wheelbase and to do something about that hump.

I like the TNT idea but it doesn't look like it would be too hard to recreate with a torch and a hammer. . .heh. . .

The front is on my project list for next winter. I'll be making my own sheet metal pieces like the TNT units, but I'll also be going to Fox 2.5 Air shocks in the front and the spring hump will be entirely removed.

To move the axle forward, I moved the spring seats on the axle back and made new shock mounts. I think I have maybe another .5" before the control arm hits the steering gearbox arm at full flex, so I think the real limit is just under 2" before you will need to move the steering box. It is not too hard to fab and relocate the control arm upper mount where you need it.

On of my other reasons for going with the air shocks is the clearance I will have to fab a new control arm mount on the axle. The spring pad that is currently there creates a lot of clearance issues, both with the control arm and with the steering link at full-lock left. The only other way I can think to free up some clearance there is to get an offset steering link like what the JK has. But then you will have even less clearance at the steering gearbox arm to move the axle forward.

[OldGreen]

How funny. That was the topic of discussion this morning. both the need for about an 1" more wheelbase and to do something about that hump.

I like the TNT idea but it doesn't look like it would be too hard to recreate with a torch and a hammer. . .heh. . .

The front is on my project list for next winter. I'll be making my own sheet metal pieces like the TNT units, but I'll also be going to Fox 2.5 Air shocks in the front and the spring hump will be entirely removed.

To move the axle forward, I moved the spring seats on the axle back and made new shock mounts. I think I have maybe another .5" before the control arm hits the steering gearbox arm at full flex, so I think the real limit is just under 2" before you will need to move the steering box. It is not too hard to fab and relocate the control arm upper mount where you need it.

On of my other reasons for going with the air shocks is the clearance I will have to fab a new control arm mount on the axle. The spring pad that is currently there creates a lot of clearance issues, both with the control arm and with the steering link at full-lock left. The only other way I can think to free up some clearance there is to get an offset steering link like what the JK has. But then you will have even less clearance at the steering gearbox arm to move the axle forward.

One thing. . I've seen you drive and been in a couple three races. . .If you drive hard, air shocks will be useless for dampening very quickly. They are great for slow speed or as a secondary spring but for primary dampening, you need something that is FULL of as much oil as you can get.

And. . .I'll keep up with the front end stuff. If I make any mods, I'll post them here and keep an eye on your thread as well.

[Wrench]

One thing. . I've seen you drive and been in a couple three races. . .If you drive hard, air shocks will be useless for dampening very quickly. They are great for slow speed or as a secondary spring but for primary dampening, you need something that is FULL of as much oil as you can get.

I do highly value your input, Jim. My rig's primary goal is a highly capable trail rig. And yes, I am aware of the heat created; I turned my Rough Country rear shock shafts blue once with a 10-minute blast down the Powerline road at Juniper. In this case, it was the rear shocks and the valving was way to stiff, causing them to overheat. The fronts (heavier end of the vehicle) at the time were working well and just getting warm, so I know how much the valving itself can effect this. I plan on running mine as soft on high-speed compression/rebound as I can possibly get away with. That's what is best for traction, anyway.

That being said, if I ever do get to where I want to compete with mine, I will be leaving enough room for coil-overs with reservoirs. In fact, I it would be pretty slick to be able to swap back and forth depending on the conditions. One of the things I really like about the Fox air shocks is that you can calculate the spring rates depending on your oil level and air pressure. This info will be invaluable down the road if I ever go shopping for coilovers/coils.

Also, I have a set of progressive rate front coils and urethane spacers that should net about 3" of lift. Wanna throw them in there to test them out?

[OldGreen]

I love this plan. Do you have specs on them? Free length, wire size etc

I love your plan as well.

[79chevy39.5's]

another option to look at is the new struts from ori, dont think they have the fade of the air shock

[OldGreen]

I love this plan. Do you have specs on them? Free length, wire size etc

I love your plan as well.

Never mind...when can I grab them?

[Wrench]

another option to look at is the new struts from ori, dont think they have the fade of the air shock

Thanks for the tip.

These are much more expensive than the Fox 2.5 units. About 50% higher cost. They look more like a better alternative to coilovers, and are priced in that range.

[79chevy39.5's]

yes they are not cheap, i personally have a set of 2.0 fox 18" that will be going on the rear of my 54 truck, all brackets, links and truss are made just need to be put on the truck, have a friend that runs the 2.5's in the rear but put coils up front due to cost, but the rear is working out very good

edit: local guy put the ori's on the front of his cherokee recently (juggy) but he moved back east before I had a chance to see if he had them out/had formed an opinion yet