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Power Wagon
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:12 pm
Location: Milton Freewater, OR

Hi there, new forum reader...

Postby Power Wagon » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:11 pm

Hi there, I'm just making my obligatory introduction... I'm not much of an off roader, at least not yet, I'm all new to it, though not new to 4x4's. Just never owned a jeep, though when I was young, my dad owned an M37 and we explored a lot in the Utah deserts. I currently live in Milton Freewater, OR (near walla walla).

I bought my first 4x4 for specifically getting into tough places ( mostly for business ), and I'm slowly getting it ready to go... should be driveable in a week or two.

Image

It's an 81 W150, slant six power, 4 speed, converting it to propane, adding PowerTrax no-slip to the rear and Lock-Right to the front, raising it a bit, and eventually 33 in tires.

I'm converting it to propane because propane is cheap. Diesel, for my other truck, is 4.28/gal here ,and I can fill up on propane for 2.20 as of two weeks ago. I am modding the engine with much higher compression, larger valves, breathing improvements, distributorless ignition, closed loop mixture control, and hope to get about 18 mpg on propane.

Hope to meet some of you eventually and perhaps even take a travel to some of the scenic spots with ya. I'm not into hard core technical crawling... I just wanna go the places that are remote and hard to get to :)

SquirrelCrusher
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:56 pm
Location: Dayton, Wa

Postby SquirrelCrusher » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:25 pm

Cool rig idea, thinking outside the box a bit. I don't know a lot about propane, but hopefully you do.
'94 Bronco - Buckstop bumper w/ 12k winch
To many atvs and dirt bikes

For Sale '96 F-250 Powerstroke - 4in lift, 35's, Dana 60 Front end, Tuner
Sold '96 Jeep Cherokee - 4in lift, 35s, Dual Spartans, 4.88s
Sold '80 Camaro Z/28 - T-Tops, auto, 350

Power Wagon
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:12 pm
Location: Milton Freewater, OR

Postby Power Wagon » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:09 am

SquirrelCrusher wrote:Cool rig idea, thinking outside the box a bit. I don't know a lot about propane, but hopefully you do.


Thinking outside the box? There's a box? (some would ask "He thinks?")

I'm learning a lot about propane setups as I go. Since I have to create my own timing curves I had to learn from the engineer types what happens in an engine in comparison to gasoline, and then find out what gasoline timing curves the engine likes and then tweak them "propane" style.

Since everyone said "you'll get bad mileage and lose power" on propane, I just had to do exactly that, and raise both performance and economy over it's gasoline economy, which sucked when I bought it. First trip home from buying it was 10 mpg (portland to Hermiston). I then tuned it up, drove it to montana and back and got a still terrible 15 to 16 on the trip, so I did a compression test, revealed leaky valves and other issues, including a worn out carb. So, since I was determined to go either EFI or propane, I started researching, and eventually decided on propane, since it is likely to stay very much below the cost of gas or diesel.

I know the EFI drill, having done it before, so this is a bit of adventure for me, to try something new. I have a 68 gallon (propane capacity, 86 gallon water cap) tank, and am expecting a 1200 mile range, roughly, for highway economy.

I have a small wireless internet business, and frequently have to go offroad, or in snow or mud or steep hillsides, etc, for sites and whatnot, so this is my "get there" rig. So far, I have about 1800 dollars into it, including the purchase and listed mods, except for the tires.

when I get around to the interior and bodywork, I expect to have about 3500 total into it. And no, i'm not into "carnage". I don't like breaking stuff. I expect this thing to run 200,000 more miles and then I'll dig into the motor again. ( I think it has 188,000 now).

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SPR
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Postby SPR » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:45 am

Hello and Welcome
I don't Text (at least not very well), I eat Blackberrys, and I only Twitter after sex...

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White trash
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Location: El Pasco

Postby White trash » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:32 am

Iteresting project, what are you doing to keep the valve guides lubed?

Power Wagon
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:12 pm
Location: Milton Freewater, OR

Postby Power Wagon » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:51 pm

White trash wrote:Iteresting project, what are you doing to keep the valve guides lubed?


Bronze guides and they get lubed the same as any other engine... from above, with the slight seep that comes down the valve stem. Since there is no longer any lead in the gas, that's pretty much how they all work.

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White trash
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Postby White trash » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:03 pm

Power Wagon wrote:
White trash wrote:Iteresting project, what are you doing to keep the valve guides lubed?


Bronze guides and they get lubed the same as any other engine... from above, with the slight seep that comes down the valve stem. Since there is no longer any lead in the gas, that's pretty much how they all work.



Running umbrella seals will help but eventually the lack of any regular lube will cause the valve stem to eat the guides. I've worked on some fork lifts that had an oil injections type system. It would be simple to run a vacuum line to an oil tank with a ball valve for feed control. You probably won't have any issues till about 40k with 'pane anyway. :D



You'll get better mileage once you dump those auto hubs/flanges for a set of lockouts. Does that have a 203 or a 208/241 in it? If it's a 203 a part time kit would help with mileage too.

Power Wagon
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:12 pm
Location: Milton Freewater, OR

Postby Power Wagon » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:29 pm

White trash wrote:
Power Wagon wrote:
White trash wrote:Iteresting project, what are you doing to keep the valve guides lubed?


Bronze guides and they get lubed the same as any other engine... from above, with the slight seep that comes down the valve stem. Since there is no longer any lead in the gas, that's pretty much how they all work.



Running umbrella seals will help but eventually the lack of any regular lube will cause the valve stem to eat the guides. I've worked on some fork lifts that had an oil injections type system. It would be simple to run a vacuum line to an oil tank with a ball valve for feed control. You probably won't have any issues till about 40k with 'pane anyway. :D





You'll get better mileage once you dump those auto hubs/flanges for a set of lockouts. Does that have a 203 or a 208/241 in it? If it's a 203 a part time kit would help with mileage too.


What engines are you talking about? The slant six always has umbrella seals and yes, if you don't use bronze guides, the guides wear out in 50K miles or so. And that's on gasoline, in the post-leaded world. Oil sucked in the intake will only help on the intake side anyway, it won't lube the exhaust guide, which is the one that fails. The old "top lube" the engine treatments were done to make an iron guide and no hard seats and ordinary valve material engine stay together when running without the benefit of lead.

I have hardened seats (intake and exhaust) and stainless valves (int and exh) and bronze guides (int and exh) and I expect no issues for at least 150K miles.

And yes, I have manual hubs and it's the normal Part time transfer case (drive shaft does not turn unless in 4wd). Even the auto lock hubs didn't engage until you spun the rear wheels before, and came disconnected if you didn't continue to need 4wd. They truly sucked :(

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White trash
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Postby White trash » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:27 am

The majority of my 'pane experience comes from working on hop trucks that were factory built for it. F 600 & F 700's with either 372's or 428's and GMC C 60's with 366's & 427 tall decks. They were all ex schwan trucks so who knows the mileage but after a few years on the farm they would smoke on start up etc indicating worn guides. They got the monkey snot beat out of them so it was no surprise anyway.

The one that has shown my the biggest issue is converted R series Toyota engines. They can go from no smoke with a carb to mosquito patrol a year after converting. Whats goofy is they are post leaded and have hardened seats & bronze guides factory. The other thing they have is teflon seals on the guides.


You certainly have done your homework on this project thats for sure. Any reason for ditching the distributor? I'd have probably gone with a recuved electronic setup with a msd6a for a nice hot spark. What system did you go with?

Power Wagon
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:12 pm
Location: Milton Freewater, OR

Postby Power Wagon » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:34 am

White trash wrote:The majority of my 'pane experience comes from working on hop trucks that were factory built for it. F 600 & F 700's with either 372's or 428's and GMC C 60's with 366's & 427 tall decks. They were all ex schwan trucks so who knows the mileage but after a few years on the farm they would smoke on start up etc indicating worn guides. They got the monkey snot beat out of them so it was no surprise anyway.

The one that has shown my the biggest issue is converted R series Toyota engines. They can go from no smoke with a carb to mosquito patrol a year after converting. Whats goofy is they are post leaded and have hardened seats & bronze guides factory. The other thing they have is teflon seals on the guides.


You certainly have done your homework on this project thats for sure. Any reason for ditching the distributor? I'd have probably gone with a recuved electronic setup with a msd6a for a nice hot spark. What system did you go with?


I'm putting in a Ford EDIS system, managed by something called a MegaJolt.
http://www.autosportlabs.net/Main_Page

I ditched the distributor because finding springs and parts to recurve is extremely difficult, on top of the fact that it is never accurate anyway. The drive is sloppy on this engine. It's much easier to build a map and modify it if needed.

Withidlehands
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Location: West Richland WA

Postby Withidlehands » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:38 am

Hey Have you thought about running Megasquirt instead of megajolt? Back when I built my VW we used MS to run 2 coils and its already setup for ford edis if you want it to be.

DIYautotune.com has them cheap. MS1 vs 2.2 is what Id recommend for this and thats only like $252. Plus the community is HUGE for megasquirt.

Power Wagon
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:12 pm
Location: Milton Freewater, OR

Postby Power Wagon » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:24 pm

Withidlehands wrote:Hey Have you thought about running Megasquirt instead of megajolt? Back when I built my VW we used MS to run 2 coils and its already setup for ford edis if you want it to be.

DIYautotune.com has them cheap. MS1 vs 2.2 is what Id recommend for this and thats only like $252. Plus the community is HUGE for megasquirt.


I was originally going to use MS and run EFI instead, but fuel price concerns led me to choose the propane route... BEFORE it started shooting up, actually.

The megajolt is actually more accurate than an MS1. You need an MS3 to match the timing accuracy. It has to do with how the system interpolates the skipped tooth, etc. And, the price is a lot less. No futzing around with patching the boards, etc.


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