Reiter Foothills
Moderator: Grumpy
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PistonsChick
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:25 pm
- Location: Ridgefield, WA
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PistonsChick
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:25 pm
- Location: Ridgefield, WA
Ceg wrote:The big question is who really did the damage and is there proof they did it? This is a bad mark on all of the ORV users.
OK - let's say hypothetically:
Person #1 did the damage.
Person #2 was there to witness it - but did not have the "courage" to tell Person #1 to knock it off - even though they both knew it was wrong.
Person #2 tells Person #3 what happened after reading a controversial post on a local forum - wants to do the right thing but is afraid of retaliation.
Person #3 - tells Person #4 what happened.
Person #4 now has this information but can't do anything with it without endangering the safety of Person #2 & Person #3.
Heresay - right? Not admissable on public forums and the honor of the accused will be heavily defended.
BUT, now there is a conversation out there about the damage - Person #2 can "safely" notify Person #1 about the conversation on the forum and hope that they get a "clue".
Ideal? No. But far better than doing nothing at all...
This does not change the fact a whole group was accused and there is no proof. If there was proof, it should have been taken to the DNR not the PNW4WDA. I have seen and reported many that were causing damage. I reported these things to the Forest Service, DNR, ORV LEO or who was in charge of the area. The PNW4WDA is not the police and can not do anything about swat.PistonsChick wrote:Ceg wrote:The big question is who really did the damage and is there proof they did it? This is a bad mark on all of the ORV users.
OK - let's say hypothetically:
Person #1 did the damage.
Person #2 was there to witness it - but did not have the "courage" to tell Person #1 to knock it off - even though they both knew it was wrong.
Person #2 tells Person #3 what happened after reading a controversial post on a local forum - wants to do the right thing but is afraid of retaliation.
Person #3 - tells Person #4 what happened.
Person #4 now has this information but can't do anything with it without endangering the safety of Person #2 & Person #3.
Heresay - right? Not admissable on public forums and the honor of the accused will be heavily defended.
BUT, now there is a conversation out there about the damage - Person #2 can "safely" notify Person #1 about the conversation on the forum and hope that they get a "clue".
Ideal? No. But far better than doing nothing at all...
PNW4WDA is here to educate not to judge. You give more eduction by talking nice to users not jumping them. Maybe you should ask to take the DNR Forest Watch Class to understand things a little better.
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PistonsChick
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:25 pm
- Location: Ridgefield, WA
Ceg wrote:Maybe you should ask to take the DNR Forest Watch Class to understand things a little better.
Which off-road group do you think helped design the DNR's current Forest Watch Patrol program that most of you are just now attending?
Even DNR recognizes and supports "strategized" efforts to STOP THE RESOURCE DAMAGE when traditional efforts fail to have a noticeable effect.
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White trash
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
- Location: El Pasco
Grumpy wrote:PNW needs to find their balls and start backing the efforts in all three states! They are too conservative to survive in the political arena we are forced to work in, and best start realizing that! My intention when cross posting was not so much to start a war, as it was to get the gang here up to speed on some issues out of our area. What happens in one DNR area is going to affect us all.
PNW finding it's balls? Yea that'll happen in my lifetime...
IMO the problems need to be addressed plain and simple. I feel that 99% of things should be discussed on open forums with VERY minor moderation. If you don't have the sack to post something on an open forum you probably shouldn't post it in the first place.
Oh so you made it. Wow thank you very much. You are my hero.PistonsChick wrote:Ceg wrote:Maybe you should ask to take the DNR Forest Watch Class to understand things a little better.
Which off-road group do you think helped design the DNR's current Forest Watch Patrol program that most of you are just now attending?
Even DNR recognizes and supports "strategized" efforts to STOP THE RESOURCE DAMAGE when traditional efforts fail to have a noticeable effect.
You are way out there. Slander is not the way of the DNR.
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Grumpy
- Peak Putters' Land-Use Coordinator
- Posts: 6049
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 am
- Location: Kennewick, WA
Easy, gang! I want this away from argument and in to discussion on how to cover the issue!!!
Dave
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.
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White trash
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
- Location: El Pasco
Out of respect for the Peak Putters and many friends I have on this board I'm going to finalize my point in this one post.
#1 - I never defended the whore's club, it's members or any of their actions. Matter of fact if you go back and read the end of the post I actually said I don't condone their actions. So I really don't understand how you can call me the "mighty defender of those who tear up the trails" - because if you knew anything about me you know I am the exact opposite. I don't get called the "Trail Nazi" for no reason.
#2 - I didn't stick my nose where it wasn't invited. This is the internet - I can go anywhere I please. The fact that I was getting phone calls about what was going on was my invitation if I really needed to have one.
#3 - I have never claimed that I have been working successfully with the DNR for the last five years. I said I started going to meetings 5 years ago, which was when I got into wheeling. I will never claim to do things that I haven't actually done. Now I can say that in the last 1 1/2 years I have worked very closely with the Yakima Sherriff's department, the DNR, BLM and other LEO's. I have also traveled the state attending many safety symposium's, swap meets, safety expo's and whatever providing information on Trail Watch and gathering members and support. Now I have people contacting me for information.
#4 - The goal of Trail Watch is not to open more wheeling areas. The goal of Trail Watch is to stop the vandalism, destruction, and disregard for the tread lightly rules that happen on the trails by putting the actual users of the trails in action to collect information and report it either to Trail Watch or the LEO's for the area in concern. This all happens in current time - we ask our members to take pictures and note the important information that would result in the offender getting disciplined by the proper LEO's. If a member feels that a certain situation can be remedied by education alone we support that also, but don't ask our members to put themselves in dangerous situations. My S.O.P's are working just fine.
#5 - The point I keep trying to make with Piston's Chick - which yes this is the 3rd time we've ended up in this situation - is not the fact that I am actually trashing on her - just more how she handles certain things. But it's not just her - it's anyone handling this type of thing in this manor. She just happens to be brought to my attention more often I guess. I honestly think she is doing a wonderful job in the things she is trying to accomplish. The problem is the assumptions and accusations. The way I see it - if you don't have actual proof and definite facts - either a)keep your mouth shut, or b)approach the subject in a way that is not putting people immediately on the defense, and research things fully before throwing someone to the wolves, or c)take the information you have to someone who knows how to handle the situation.
As for all of the boards and committee's and volunteering you do Crystal - good job!!
As for her and I getting along - probably not going to happen. We may be working on similar types of things that we are trying to do for the wheeling community. But we obviously stand on different ground in our processes and beliefs. Which in all honesty isn't necessarily isn't a bad thing - because every time she and I end up in one of these "discussions" it brings to light some of the things that need to be changed or modified. I guess you could say that she and I have a way about us that is shaking the dust and dirt back out from under the rug.
#6 - I rarely drink......let alone Heidelburg. That crap's nasty. And if I do, it's at home or in camp. Crystal you should have known that from digging up the last time we got into it.
As for me and "mine" having a self proclaimed level of tolerance for people who drive under the influence and tear up trails - I will put it this way..... You are soooo wrong, and you can ask anyone who we have wheeled with.
I will tell you right now that my husband (sorry honey) has not always been the "perfect wheeler" and the same goes for a lot of the wheelers out there. But because of the forums providing the information they do, and the people like me - and like you Crystal - people are changing their ways, their learning that their drunken destructive habits are going to get them in trouble - and in turn cause them to lose their wheeling areas.
My husband no longer drinks on the trail - and hasn't for years. He isn't destructive either - even though some would like to think so since we have huge tires and a long and wide wheelbase on our truck. In my eyes - he's setting a great example for everyone who knows him or knows of him. Now if I could just get him to quit modifying the truck so we could wheel more often it would be great! Point to be made with that last little bit - is this - we don't have to project a high and mighty attitude to get things accomplished. We are no better than you, or anyone else. We're just a couple that likes to wheel and are tired of seeing our trails tore up and cleaning up after other people. Plain and simple.
With that I thank the Peak Putters for their tolerance with the bit of excitement that came to the site. I also apologize if this has brought offense to any of the members here. If the moderators see fit to delete any posts on this subject I'm sure it will be understood.
#1 - I never defended the whore's club, it's members or any of their actions. Matter of fact if you go back and read the end of the post I actually said I don't condone their actions. So I really don't understand how you can call me the "mighty defender of those who tear up the trails" - because if you knew anything about me you know I am the exact opposite. I don't get called the "Trail Nazi" for no reason.
#2 - I didn't stick my nose where it wasn't invited. This is the internet - I can go anywhere I please. The fact that I was getting phone calls about what was going on was my invitation if I really needed to have one.
#3 - I have never claimed that I have been working successfully with the DNR for the last five years. I said I started going to meetings 5 years ago, which was when I got into wheeling. I will never claim to do things that I haven't actually done. Now I can say that in the last 1 1/2 years I have worked very closely with the Yakima Sherriff's department, the DNR, BLM and other LEO's. I have also traveled the state attending many safety symposium's, swap meets, safety expo's and whatever providing information on Trail Watch and gathering members and support. Now I have people contacting me for information.
#4 - The goal of Trail Watch is not to open more wheeling areas. The goal of Trail Watch is to stop the vandalism, destruction, and disregard for the tread lightly rules that happen on the trails by putting the actual users of the trails in action to collect information and report it either to Trail Watch or the LEO's for the area in concern. This all happens in current time - we ask our members to take pictures and note the important information that would result in the offender getting disciplined by the proper LEO's. If a member feels that a certain situation can be remedied by education alone we support that also, but don't ask our members to put themselves in dangerous situations. My S.O.P's are working just fine.
#5 - The point I keep trying to make with Piston's Chick - which yes this is the 3rd time we've ended up in this situation - is not the fact that I am actually trashing on her - just more how she handles certain things. But it's not just her - it's anyone handling this type of thing in this manor. She just happens to be brought to my attention more often I guess. I honestly think she is doing a wonderful job in the things she is trying to accomplish. The problem is the assumptions and accusations. The way I see it - if you don't have actual proof and definite facts - either a)keep your mouth shut, or b)approach the subject in a way that is not putting people immediately on the defense, and research things fully before throwing someone to the wolves, or c)take the information you have to someone who knows how to handle the situation.
As for all of the boards and committee's and volunteering you do Crystal - good job!!
As for her and I getting along - probably not going to happen. We may be working on similar types of things that we are trying to do for the wheeling community. But we obviously stand on different ground in our processes and beliefs. Which in all honesty isn't necessarily isn't a bad thing - because every time she and I end up in one of these "discussions" it brings to light some of the things that need to be changed or modified. I guess you could say that she and I have a way about us that is shaking the dust and dirt back out from under the rug.
#6 - I rarely drink......let alone Heidelburg. That crap's nasty. And if I do, it's at home or in camp. Crystal you should have known that from digging up the last time we got into it.
As for me and "mine" having a self proclaimed level of tolerance for people who drive under the influence and tear up trails - I will put it this way..... You are soooo wrong, and you can ask anyone who we have wheeled with.
I will tell you right now that my husband (sorry honey) has not always been the "perfect wheeler" and the same goes for a lot of the wheelers out there. But because of the forums providing the information they do, and the people like me - and like you Crystal - people are changing their ways, their learning that their drunken destructive habits are going to get them in trouble - and in turn cause them to lose their wheeling areas.
My husband no longer drinks on the trail - and hasn't for years. He isn't destructive either - even though some would like to think so since we have huge tires and a long and wide wheelbase on our truck. In my eyes - he's setting a great example for everyone who knows him or knows of him. Now if I could just get him to quit modifying the truck so we could wheel more often it would be great! Point to be made with that last little bit - is this - we don't have to project a high and mighty attitude to get things accomplished. We are no better than you, or anyone else. We're just a couple that likes to wheel and are tired of seeing our trails tore up and cleaning up after other people. Plain and simple.
With that I thank the Peak Putters for their tolerance with the bit of excitement that came to the site. I also apologize if this has brought offense to any of the members here. If the moderators see fit to delete any posts on this subject I'm sure it will be understood.
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White trash
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
- Location: El Pasco
Peanut wrote:I will tell you right now that my husband (sorry honey) has not always been the "perfect wheeler" and the same goes for a lot of the wheelers out there. But because of the forums providing the information they do, and the people like me - and like you Crystal - people are changing their ways, their learning that their drunken destructive habits are going to get them in trouble - and in turn cause them to lose their wheeling areas.
My husband no longer drinks on the trail - and hasn't for years. He isn't destructive either - even though some would like to think so since we have huge tires and a long and wide wheelbase on our truck. In my eyes - he's setting a great example for everyone who knows him or knows of him. Now if I could just get him to quit modifying the truck so we could wheel more often it would be great! Point to be made with that last little bit - is this - we don't have to project a high and mighty attitude to get things accomplished. We are no better than you, or anyone else. We're just a couple that likes to wheel and are tired of seeing our trails tore up and cleaning up after other people. Plain and simple.
Meh, no need to apologize to me. I make no bones about my past whatsoever. I was one destructive individual in my younger years. As for drinking all it took was one trip home from tsf on a trailer rather than driving my truck home to convince myself to not drink and wheel.
Oh and yea, the truck will be together for a long time after this round of bigger better stronger is over..
Wow look what I get on the PNW4WDA forum for looking out for people:
You have been banned for the following reason:
Posting information from the private members area
Date the ban will be lifted: 11-27-2009, 04:00 PM
I guess it was over copying this from the e-mail I got last night:
EDITTED FOR MY FRIEND DAN
If PistonsChick would have had the balls to tell these people up front instead of getting a lynch mob going in a hidden area, none of this will have happened.
It is ok to band me here too since I am the trouble maker.
You have been banned for the following reason:
Posting information from the private members area
Date the ban will be lifted: 11-27-2009, 04:00 PM
I guess it was over copying this from the e-mail I got last night:
EDITTED FOR MY FRIEND DAN
If PistonsChick would have had the balls to tell these people up front instead of getting a lynch mob going in a hidden area, none of this will have happened.
It is ok to band me here too since I am the trouble maker.
Last edited by Beep Beep on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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White trash
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
- Location: El Pasco
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Grumpy
- Peak Putters' Land-Use Coordinator
- Posts: 6049
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 am
- Location: Kennewick, WA
Okay, children, let's get this back on track. We're discussing what's happened at Reiter, and trying to learn from it! No more slams or whatever, just the facts as they relate to a problem we all share. Reiter could very well become the blueprint for our future, so pay attention! Some of our families, including mine, are in the 3rd or 4th generation of offroading, and we want to see many more. I will save my thoughts on cooperation for another day. For now, let's get back to watching Reiter and seeing about what we may do from over here to help!
Dave
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091127/NEWS01/711279862#Damage.persists.after.off-roading.ban.in.Reiter.Foothills
Published: Friday, November 27, 2009
Damage persists after off-roading ban in Reiter Foothills
By Katya Yefimova
Herald Writer
GOLD BAR — The Reiter Foothills may be off limits, but officials worry that hasn't stopped some off-road riders.
Since the 10,000-acre forest in east Snohomish County closed for renovation, rangers say some off-road riders headed further east, damaging federally protected soil where no Jeep has been before.
Mud holes and tracks from four-wheelers have been spotted away from Reiter Foothills in the pristine Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest lands off U.S. 2.
“The forest is a fragile ecosystem,â€
Published: Friday, November 27, 2009
Damage persists after off-roading ban in Reiter Foothills
By Katya Yefimova
Herald Writer
GOLD BAR — The Reiter Foothills may be off limits, but officials worry that hasn't stopped some off-road riders.
Since the 10,000-acre forest in east Snohomish County closed for renovation, rangers say some off-road riders headed further east, damaging federally protected soil where no Jeep has been before.
Mud holes and tracks from four-wheelers have been spotted away from Reiter Foothills in the pristine Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest lands off U.S. 2.
“The forest is a fragile ecosystem,â€
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