Ok-Wenn Travel Management Plan - Comments 1-20-15

Land issues, laws, restrictions, etc...

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Grumpy
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Postby Grumpy » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:47 pm

Date submitted (UTC): 1/27/2015 8:15:02 PM
First name: Ann
Last name: MacDonald
Organization: Bellingham Sings
Title:
Official Representative/Member Indicator:
Address1: 2705 Williams Street
Address2:
City: Bellingham
State:
Province/Region: WA
Zip/Postal Code: 98225
Country: United States
Email: anniemue@yahoo.com
Phone: 360-676-2396
Comments:
This forest needs to stay pristine-We need somewhere for the future generations to come to take in pure and
natural beauty. No motorized vehicles in a great portion of the area and not motorized boats on the lakes. We
will not regret this.
It will make money in the future for this reason.
Dave
Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon80
-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.
-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.

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Grumpy
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Postby Grumpy » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:47 pm

Date submitted (UTC): 1/27/2015 6:13:36 AM
First name: Oliver
Last name: Cift
Organization: Sierra Club, Washington State Chapter
Title: MR
Official Representative/Member Indicator: Member
Address1: 3594 South Bay Drive
Address2:
City: Sedro Woolley
State: WA
Province/Region:
Zip/Postal Code: 98284
Country: United States
Email: oliveronline12@gmail.com
Phone: 3609418453
Comments:
Dear Sir or Madam,
I am writing you regarding the Motorized Travel Management Project nr 28730.
The Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest is one of Washington's wild places that needs protection from
motorized vehicles that damage the vegetation and soil. For too long have humans impacted our forests in bad
ways. Logging and roads that serve motorized vehicle fragment natural habitats and decreases biodiversity.
Our National Forest are one of the few places that have a potential to remain in their natural environment.
These forest are valuable for wildlife and limited recreational purposes. Hiking and walking to explore these
wonderful places should be protected. Too many species are becoming endangered and are going extinct all
around the world and especially in the US. Our water quality is severely impacted by chemicals and industry as
well as motorized vehicle. As a young 25 year old person who is studying Environmental Sciences and is
spending time outdoors hiking and exploring our natural environment, I too often see devastating landscapes
that have been severely impacted.
My current residence is located by Lake Whatcom in Bellingham, Washington. The lake is on the watch list
because of invasive algae and the shrinking water quality. Half the area around the lake follows a busy road
which impacts the watershed significantly. The other more rural part is impacted by the logging that has
happened and is still happening. Hydrology is directly linked to soil sciences and the removal of vegetation is
certainly one of the biggest impacts on soil and water.
In addition, I believe you and most other people working for the National Forest Service belive in exploring
nature by foot. Too much of our precious and wonderful land is already covered with roads that cause water
and air pollution. By allowing motorized vehicles on these trails you will only also allow for air and water
pollution. Please help us together to protect our National Forests.
I sincerely appreciate your consideration and hard work.
Oliver Cift
Dave

Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe





Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon80

-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.

-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.

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Grumpy
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Postby Grumpy » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:47 am

Date submitted (UTC): 1/29/2015 1:58:21 AM
First name: virginia
Last name: stout
Organization: Sierra Club, Washington State Chapter
Title: Dr.
Official Representative/Member Indicator: Member
Address1: 2822-10th Ave. East
Address2:
City: Seattle
State: WA
Province/Region:
Zip/Postal Code: 98102-3926
Country: United States
Email: virginiastout@earthlink.net
Phone: 206 3228786
Comments:
Our trails are very fragile and eroded by motor vehicles, as well as hikers who cut switchbacks. The noise and
danger reduce the value of our sacred forests. Please outlaw all motorized travel except for emergencies and
maintenance work.
Dave

Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe





Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon80

-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.

-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.

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Grumpy
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Postby Grumpy » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:51 am

Date submitted (UTC): 1/30/2015 3:38:56 PM
First name: Byron
Last name: Stuck
Organization: WOHVA
Title: President
Official Representative/Member Indicator: Official Representative
Address1: 7260 86th Ave SE
Address2:
City: Mercer Island
State: WA
Province/Region:
Zip/Postal Code: 98040
Country: United States
Email: nmatrust@hotmail.com
Phone:
Comments:
LONGER COMMENT PERIOD - I appreciate the longer comment period although another 10 days is relatively
short given the size of the forest. I want to make sure comments are received regarding all OHV types as well
as the image of motorized off road recreation.
OFF ROAD MOTORCYCLISTS REPRESENTED - I've seen a fair number of off road motorcyclist comments
and that's great because there are many single track trail opportunities included in the proposed plan and many
more highlighted in the comments and detailed review provided as attachments.
4X4 USERS REPRESENTED - I've also read many comments by 4x4 users and believe that their comments
are at least present, if not thorough. There are many non-licensed 4x4 users and the forest has some areas for
their use but there could be more.
ATV AND UTV USERS NOT WELL REPRESENTED - I've NOT seen many ATV and now UTV users
comments and that's a concern, because they ARE out there. I believe the Rangers and staff know they are a
diverse and less organized group although the Wenatchee and Methow areas have strong organizations. I've
seen these users though scattered through farming and urban recreationalists, hunters who do not belong to
any clubs, and the like. Comparatively, motorcycle and 4x4 users have more coverage with clubs and
organizations across the state. And this forest WILL see more demands from these groups.
OVERLAPPING RD WITH RIDING AREAS - While the Ranger District lines typically cross over riding areas, I
believe the rangers and staff understand that the recreationalists look at riding areas and not RD's when they
comment. The "Mad River" area for example as shown on your own OHV map for that area covers I believe 3
different RDs.
VOLUNTEER ENERGY/CONTRIBUTION - The Cle Elum RD has done the best job of organizing motorized
volunteers but for sure they exist in all areas of the forest. It's difficult to see the narrow-minded anti-motorized
comments not reflecting this huge resource provided at no cost every year.
TRAIL IMPACT OVERSTATED - Also the "harm" created by OHV users is vastly overstated by many anticomments
as evidenced by the fact that many of these trails would be "reclaimed" by the natural surroundings
if they were not cut out with chainsaws and maintained each year with volunteer work from the motorized
recreationalists. The biggest issue I've experienced in terms of adverse impact by motorized users comes from
the location/design of the trail itself and not the abuse by users. Certainly, switchbacks have been dug out but
reinforcing blocks have solved many of those issues. And the noise concerns are real but should be enforced
by education and enforcement. I've experienced excessive and legal noise levels coming from the same
motorcycles for example and the difference is simply the choice of silencer of the maintenance and repacking
of it. We have expert consultation on sound should the FS like more information about this.
Thanks for the opportunity to submit these additional comments, and also for posting those made earlier online
so we can comment on them. We look forward to working with the Forest Service to complete this review
process and continue to provide outstanding motorized recreation opportunities.
Dave

Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe





Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon80

-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.

-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.

Wrench
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Postby Wrench » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:20 pm

28730-623-409

Didnt really know what to say, but dammit, I'm tired of those tree huggers! They dont have a problem chopping down trees to plant their new homestead, but they sure like to close the trails we use!
Paul
'84 XJ, '19JL

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Livin4Today
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Postby Livin4Today » Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:47 pm

Mine's in under the wire...

28730-623-413

Hope they read it.
Lance

Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...

2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com

User avatar
Grumpy
Peak Putters' Land-Use Coordinator
Peak Putters' Land-Use Coordinator
Posts: 6049
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Postby Grumpy » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:23 am

416 comments. How many of you were on as "Anon"?
Dave

Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe





Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon80

-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.

-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.

User avatar
Livin4Today
Posts: 1054
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:23 am
Location: Kennewick, WA

Postby Livin4Today » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:01 am

Not Me, I chose PNW4WDA
Lance

Building a capable off roader is easy, building a street legal one that you can wheel and then drive daily is the challenge...

2007 JKU, 7" RK lift, 40s, ARBs, 5.38s, Headers, Fox Coilovers, etc. http://www.Livin4Today.com

User avatar
Grumpy
Peak Putters' Land-Use Coordinator
Peak Putters' Land-Use Coordinator
Posts: 6049
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 am
Location: Kennewick, WA

Postby Grumpy » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:29 pm

legal or not, most ML 1 roads were "closed" in the early 90's throughout USFS Region 6. Now they are starting part "A" and getting down to "sustainable" road system based on the maint. budget. Here on the Willamette NF, over the last 5 years they only have a budget of approximately 25% of what is required to maint. what roads are open.

Forests are now in the process of holding meetings and asking those that show up, what roads and areas do you use and mark maps accordingly. They won't/don't tell you that will be the basis for the next series of closures to get to that "sustainable" system. They figure that the roads on the maps marked by users will get used the most and generate the fewest complaints later if they are the open ones. Part "A" was supposed to be done by the end of this year, but will probably run into 2016/2017.

Don't forget that when the fire budgets get blown out, they start raiding other funds to pay for fire control, so there goes thinning/cleanup and road budgets as well.

Art Waugh
Dave

Have Scout, will wheel...Someday...Maybe





Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon80

-By driving a Scout, you my friend have recycled, which is more than those pansy Prius owners can say.

-I love driving a piece of history that was nearly lost.


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