PEAK PUTTERS

As I mentioned in the introduction section I'm looking to re-gear my 2001 Wrangler (going from 3.73's to 4.88). I've got a 4" teraflex lift and 35's so it's rather necessary. Dana 30 front, Dana 44 rear.

Just got a quote from Mireless in Prosser, and it looks like it'l be around $740 per axle (parts and labor - full re-gear kit) - which has me choking a bit. He thought it might be less if some of the bearings were still good, and if there was no posi-traction stuff needed. - and the quoted price doesn't include new carriers as he didn't think they would be needed. How does this sound to those of you more knowledgeable than me?

I'm new to all of this, but from everything I've read it seems like there's a cut-off between 3.73 and 3.92 gears on both the axle's as far as carriers go. And, most people seem to think the only parts needed will be ring, pinion, and carriers. - All of which seems to come to $550 in parts on average, for Yukon or Superior brand stuff.

Sounds to me like I need to do some more googling and call a few other shops in WA to get a better feel for what's what.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Also have to remember in the labor includes:
pulling tires
axles
brakes
bearings
gear oil, new and dispose of old.
seals
and I'm sure something is missing
all this is working under the Jeep not on a bench as if you just took the housings in.
plus changing the gears, bearings, shims, seals for the gear change its self.

The big parts are easy to calculate, it's the little forgotten things that add up in a hurry.

Time, you can drop it off in the morning and have gears that evening, how long would it take you to do the gear change?

As for calling around, never a bad idea to be an informed shopper.

I did my Cherokee last year to 4:88's. If I remember correctly, the gears and install kits (bearings, seals, marking compound, shims) ran me about $500. I installed a used Trac-Lok, which I got for around $150, so total parts cost was about $650. I found the best prices on Ebay.

I bought the whole kits because I expected my bearings to be pretty worn (my XJ is an '84), but they were actually in excellent condition. You probably wont need to replace the bearings.

If you need shims, I have a few, but the guy at Diesel Performance in Pasco has a huge stash. I am sure he'll let you pick through and find what you need if you ask. When I set my gears, the old pinion shims on the new gears were almost dead-on, but the carrier shims were off. The new gears should have a number on them, (0.008 or something) that should tell you how far off they are from dead-on, and this is usually the amount you will need to correct from your stock shim setup.

It really isnt too hard to set gears, just time-consuming. It really helps if you have access to air tools, a press, a slide-hammer, a magnetic micrometer setup, a hotplate, and an in/lbs torque wrench.

Yeah, I'm mostly just trying to be informed. Everywhere I look on the internet, it seems that $1400-1500 is a huge ripoff (common consensus seems to be that the whole thing should be less than $1000)- so I'm trying to figure out what the full deal really entails. If it actually does cost more then so be it - I'd just like to know.

Thought about doing it myself, but my mechanical skills are more oriented towards diesel tractors and computers. I have access to most of the necessary tools, but not the know how.

Might try superglock if you're shopping around.
I never had any dealing with him

http://insanityfab.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2082

Bang for the buck I'd put the yeep up on jackstands and deliver the stripped housings and all the parts to whatever shop you have do the work. I'd absolutely get full install kits, why risk the gears and labor on old bearings when a full kit is only $100 ish?

6 states will have a good price on the proper low speed carriers or you can get them from whomever you get the parts through.


Romero is most likely getting the price quote from Randy's ring & pinion via napa hence the price. Buy your own parts and see what just the gear setup labor would run. I can haul the parts both ways for ya to Prosser if you go that route so no worries on that end.

White trash wrote:Bang for the buck I'd put the yeep up on jackstands and deliver the stripped housings and all the parts to whatever shop you have do the work. I'd absolutely get full install kits, why risk the gears and labor on old bearings when a full kit is only $100 ish?

x2 Do the stupid work yourself and pay for the smart work.

White trash wrote:Bang for the buck I'd put the yeep up on jackstands and deliver the stripped housings and all the parts to whatever shop you have do the work. I'd absolutely get full install kits, why risk the gears and labor on old bearings when a full kit is only $100 ish?

I may have to do that, though at the moment I don't know how. Guess I'll be doing some reading. Most of it should be easy I think... Tires, brake lines, sway bar, shocks, control arms, coil spring, and then the drive shaft. Am I missing anything? Oh dear, I can't even do the stupid work at the moment.

White trash wrote:Romero is most likely getting the price quote from Randy's ring & pinion via napa hence the price. Buy your own parts and see what just the gear setup labor would run. I can haul the parts both ways for ya to Prosser if you go that route so no worries on that end.

Yup, that's where he's getting the parts. I didn't ask him to separate out parts and labor, so I'll do some looking and give him another call. Everything I read seems to be saying that It's best to have the shop buy the parts, but that might not always be the case. Don't want to end up buying the wrong things.

Go to six states and talk to dennis, he's a wheeler and should treat you right on parts. I've bought alot of parts from him over the years and he's always treated me fair. Mention PP's and Rumblegoat Racing, like I said he should treat you right.

You'll get a better deal directly through Randy's than he's getting from napa guaranteed. Their "jobber" markup is 30% and they don't get jack for a discount from Randy's to begin with.



If I'm not mistaken all ya gotta do up front is pull the calipers then the 3 bolts holding the unit bearing to the knuckle and the whole shebang axle shaft included comes right out. The rear is semi float so its just a a handful of bolts and the shaft & brakes come right out.

I'll check out 6 states and Randy's to see what everything comes too. I'm gonna need more jack stands so I may run into the Tri-Cites in the evening tomorrow and see what I can find.

White trash wrote:If I'm not mistaken all ya gotta do up front is pull the calipers then the 3 bolts holding the unit bearing to the knuckle and the whole shebang axle shaft included comes right out. The rear is semi float so its just a a handful of bolts and the shaft & brakes come right out.

3 Bolts or 4?

Rear:


Front:


Is it the above circled in red? Or does the shaft pull out of the housing when the axle is free and you're talking about some other bolts?



And just to make things more complex, from what I've been reading it's probably best to do lockers at the same time as the re-gear. Before I thought I could progressively do things - but it seems that it would be like doing the same work twice.

Since sand, mud, and snow will be mostly what this jeep sees I think a rear selectable locker will cover most of what I want to do. I've been looking strongly at Ox, as I like the simplicity - it's a bit spendy but I think I can swing it at the same time as the re-gear if I tighten my belt a bit, and get the axles off myself. Any resounding No's to this proposition?

Those are the driveline bolts, they will need to be removed too. I was refering to the 3 bolts on the backside of the knuckle on the front axle.



No problem tossing a locker or two in the mix while you're there at all.

White trash wrote:Those are the driveline bolts, they will need to be removed too. I was refering to the 3 bolts on the backside of the knuckle on the front axle.

Oh ok, when you said knuckle the only thing that came to mind was the ones on the drive shaft.

You're talking about these steering thingy bolts then right?



Yah, I'm new.

Nope strike two..

They are mounted near the front axleshaft pointing out in the same direction as the wheel studs that have those shiny nuts that hold the tires and wheels on.. You can see their heads when you look in there carefully. I can't attach pics from my phone or I'd just do that, but you are running out of nuts & bolts to guess wrong on so eventually you'll find them.

White trash wrote:Nope strike two..

They are mounted near the front axleshaft pointing out in the same direction as the wheel studs that have those shiny nuts that hold the tires and wheels on.. You can see their heads when you look in there carefully. I can't attach pics from my phone or I'd just do that, but you are running out of nuts & bolts to guess wrong on so eventually you'll find them.

Doh!

I'm grabbing a flashlight and crawling back under the jeep now. At least I can be wrong only so many times.

I'm just giving ya a hard time.. Do a google image search for say "Jeep tj steering knuckle" or maybe "Jeep tj unit bearing"
and you'll see where the bolts are. Heck I bet if ya just google "How to replace Jeep tj unit bearing" you'll get a whole write up.

White trash wrote: I was refering to the 3 bolts on the backside of the knuckle on the front axle.

You can see two of them in this pic... I drew some arrows, the third one is hidden behind the axle in the pic.

White trash wrote:I'm just giving ya a hard time.. Do a google image search for say "Jeep tj steering knuckle" or maybe "Jeep tj unit bearing"
and you'll see where the bolts are. Heck I bet if ya just google "How to replace Jeep tj unit bearing" you'll get a whole write up.

Yah, I know, it's all good fun. But you guys better watch out if you have a computer or firearm question...

commando14 wrote:
You can see two of them in this pic... I drew some arrows, the third one is hidden behind the axle in the pic.

Ok, good I was right on the third try, figured that's what they were since they line up with the shiny wheel holder thingy's.


Thanks for the help all, looks like this is going to be easier than I thought.

Your knuckles will probably just pull right out.

Mine were rusted in place, and had to be persuaded quite heavily to come out. It really threw me for a loop, as every article I read said to just "pull the whole knuckle bearing/axle assembly out". I broke my slide hammer trying to pull it out.

As far as cost goes, for $1400-1500, you should be able to buy all your parts, all your needed tools, and maybe even lockers front and rear. Do it yourself, and you will learn how to do it for any rig you purchase down the road.

Wrench wrote:Your knuckles will probably just pull right out.

Mine were rusted in place, and had to be persuaded quite heavily to come out. It really threw me for a loop, as every article I read said to just "pull the whole knuckle bearing/axle assembly out". I broke my slide hammer trying to pull it out.

Think I'm gonna start hitting everything I need to remove with PB blaster a couple days in advance. I hate when things get exciting, I've broken a slide hammer on a tractor before and it was no fun.

Wrench wrote:As far as cost goes, for $1400-1500, you should be able to buy all your parts, all your needed tools, and maybe even lockers front and rear. Do it yourself, and you will learn how to do it for any rig you purchase down the road.

It is tempting, but I think I'd want to watch someone do it several times on other rigs before attempting to do it myself. To many horror stories floating around of people getting the alignment wrong. Parts are expensive.

The primary critical part is getting the backlash and wear pattern correct, which can be double-checked very easily by a competent technician (might cost you a case of beer, etc). And the secondary critical part is proper break-in. Most gear problems are due to improper break-in rather than incorrect gear setting, but most people will blame the installer. Perfectly installed gears can grenade very quickly if not broken in properly.

Even my STOCK gears didn't have what I would call a "perfect" wear pattern, but had tons of miles on them. From the evidence, this is why my original ring gear lost a few teeth. It was evident by the wear pattern that there was more stress on the outer edge of the teeth instead of the center, causing them to shear from the edge instead of holding the load. So a perfect setup becomes more critical depending on the load you will be putting on them.

Whatever you do, it will either cost you quite a bit of time or money, and possibly alot of BOTH. Be sure to ask the shop what their turn-around time is.

Wrench wrote:Whatever you do, it will either cost you quite a bit of time or money, and possibly alot of BOTH. Be sure to ask the shop what their turn-around time is.

Yeah, the more I read, the more it looks that way. It's gonna take longer to get everything setup than I thought.

Grabbed some extra jack stands and stopped by 6 states this evening. Dennis is out on vacation but Brian was very helpful - and the prices he lined out for rings/pinions/install kits aren't bad.

Turns out I won't actually need a new carrier for the front, and the rear won't need one as I think I've finally decided on throwing in an ARB locker. Now if I can just find one in stock for a good price, several places (6 states included) have them listed for $740, but they're all out. The guys who have them in stock want $850+.

Just differentials has the arb for $800.