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Axle Upgrades to Consider if Running LARGER Tires?
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:44 am
by Rottwheeler
So I've done a LOT of reading on the web about increasing tire size on a TJ/LJ. One of the common concerns is the additional stress on the D44s and the need for reinforcement or replacement of the axles. I'm currently running 35"s and have had zero problems with my rig, but it was lifted and geared for 37"s. What do you all think needs to be done to the axles to insure trouble-free (reasonably) performance???
Thanks!
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:53 am
by Livin4Today
It could be as simple as Gusseting the C's, and shrouding/trussing, or as advanced as adding RCVs (Love Mine).
In my JK build, I'm running D-44s with my front trussed and shrouded & gusseted, with 35 spline RCVs, my rear is trussed (part of the lift)and 35 spline chromos, and ARBs front and rear. It all works well with my 37s.
Re: Axle Upgrades to Consider if Running LARGER Tires?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:01 am
by OldGreen
Rottwheeler wrote:So I've done a LOT of reading on the web about increasing tire size on a TJ/LJ. One of the common concerns is the additional stress on the D44s and the need for reinforcement or replacement of the axles. I'm currently running 35"s and have had zero problems with my rig, but it was lifted and geared for 37"s. What do you all think needs to be done to the axles to insure trouble-free (reasonably) performance???
Thanks!
My dead serious, honest advice that would cost you way less in terms of frustration (and money) in the long run: Downsize to a 3.5" lift, get Chromo Shafts for the front, keep the 35s, deal with the RPMs and wheel your a$$ off. Spend money on safety, recovery, cup holders, stereo equipment, and lots and lots of fuel. If you still have money to burn, buy the baddest a$$ set of shocks that you can stomach. No one EVER regrets that investment.
In terms of EQUIPMENT, there is not one rig on this board that your Jeep in that configuration couldn't hang with. Not the ghetto-fabbed hack-jobs like mine or the ones that have been beaten to near death with the Quadratec catalog or anything in between. . .Period. The end.
Plus you really don't have to worry about it. Point and shoot to the mall, the dunes, or the trail. . .no problem. Yeah, it will spin a little fast on the freeway, but it can handle it.
Re: Axle Upgrades to Consider if Running LARGER Tires?
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:27 am
by tobyw
OldGreen wrote:
My dead serious, honest advice that would cost you way less in terms of frustration (and money) in the long run: Downsize to a 3.5" lift, get Chromo Shafts for the front, keep the 35s, deal with the RPMs and wheel your a$$ off. Spend money on safety, recovery, cup holders, stereo equipment, and lots and lots of fuel. If you still have money to burn, buy the baddest a$$ set of shocks that you can stomach. No one EVER regrets that investment.
In terms of EQUIPMENT, there is not one rig on this board that your Jeep in that configuration couldn't hang with. Not the ghetto-fabbed hack-jobs like mine or the ones that have been beaten to near death with the Quadratec catalog or anything in between. . .Period. The end.
Plus you really don't have to worry about it. Point and shoot to the mall, the dunes, or the trail. . .no problem. Yeah, it will spin a little fast on the freeway, but it can handle it.
^^ This. All of it. To the letter.
Coming from another guy with an LJ on 35's, I honestly don't think I would spend a plugged nickle trying to take it to 37's. It simply doesn't need it, none of our local trails even come close to "requiring" it, and I've done a few other trails here and there and can honestly say I don't think I've been anywhere that I couldn't/wouldn't put it as-is. Sure it might be nice 1% of the time, but that's a lot of $$ and headache vs. a few minutes of winching...
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:06 pm
by Rottwheeler
And I won't need a trampoline to get into it when I get old(er)... good advice.
Then again... I might should keep the lift cuz I can definitely stuff the tires into the wheel wells with my twisty suspension.
Re: Axle Upgrades to Consider if Running LARGER Tires?
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:16 pm
by OldGreen
tobyw wrote:OldGreen wrote:
My dead serious, honest advice that would cost you way less in terms of frustration (and money) in the long run: Downsize to a 3.5" lift, get Chromo Shafts for the front, keep the 35s, deal with the RPMs and wheel your a$$ off. Spend money on safety, recovery, cup holders, stereo equipment, and lots and lots of fuel. If you still have money to burn, buy the baddest a$$ set of shocks that you can stomach. No one EVER regrets that investment.
In terms of EQUIPMENT, there is not one rig on this board that your Jeep in that configuration couldn't hang with. Not the ghetto-fabbed hack-jobs like mine or the ones that have been beaten to near death with the Quadratec catalog or anything in between. . .Period. The end.
Plus you really don't have to worry about it. Point and shoot to the mall, the dunes, or the trail. . .no problem. Yeah, it will spin a little fast on the freeway, but it can handle it.
^^ This. All of it. To the letter.
Coming from another guy with an LJ on 35's, I honestly don't think I would spend a plugged nickle trying to take it to 37's. It simply doesn't need it, none of our local trails even come close to "requiring" it, and I've done a few other trails here and there and can honestly say I don't think I've been anywhere that I couldn't/wouldn't put it as-is. Sure it might be nice 1% of the time, but that's a lot of $$ and headache vs. a few minutes of winching...
I will take this one step further and say that a well equipped LJ-R on 35s with 3.5-4.5" of lift, badass shocks, good safety/recovery shiz, a really good stereo, cup holders, seat heaters, and 3x hotties that love dirt in the passenger spots would be the ideal trail rig in the Northwest. Balance, wheelbase, driveability, not too big, not too small, reliable, nice looking. Nearly perfect. . .with another couple of dozen lb/ft of torque, it would be even better. . .If the aforementioned hotties wash it and maintain it when you get home from a trail run. . .even better.
Re: Axle Upgrades to Consider if Running LARGER Tires?
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:35 pm
by Rottwheeler
OldGreen wrote:
I will take this one step further and say that a well equipped LJ-R on 35s with 3.5-4.5" of lift, badass shocks, good safety/recovery shiz, a really good stereo, cup holders, seat heaters, and 3x hotties that love dirt in the passenger spots would be the ideal trail rig in the Northwest. Balance, wheelbase, driveability, not too big, not too small, reliable, nice looking. Nearly perfect. . .with another couple of dozen lb/ft of torque, it would be even better. . .If the aforementioned hotties wash it and maintain it when you get home from a trail run. . .even better.
Would this do for additional lb/ft of torque???
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:06 pm
by tobyw
If you're considering more/better power, forget everything except this:
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:08 pm
by Rottwheeler
Oh Dude... I've rummaged through Novak's site more times than I care to admit... a nice little LH6 would be just right...
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:23 am
by Livin4Today
I gotta say Old Green's idea has merit! Save the money on the banks and get the hotties, if power is all you want you win here.
Most bang for buck, cuz we all know hotties don't eat... much... lol
Re: Axle Upgrades to Consider if Running LARGER Tires?
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:35 pm
by Rottwheeler
OldGreen wrote:tobyw wrote:OldGreen wrote:
... Spend money on safety, recovery, cup holders, stereo equipment, and lots and lots of fuel. If you still have money to burn, buy the baddest a$$ set of shocks that you can stomach. No one EVER regrets that investment.
So... what do you all consider to be the baddest a$$ shocks to use? My LJ is bottoming out in the rear from time to time. I've discussed moving the shocks outboard and relocating the spring perch to take the arch out of the rear coils with members of the club.
If I'm cutting into the frame to install the outboard shock tower... would it be prudent to replace both the shock and the spring with a coil over? Both my Jeep and my spine would appreciate the best shock system I can devise (within reason... I don't have any off road racing sponsors yet
)
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:45 pm
by Jafo
And, you already have more torque than a JK.....
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:49 pm
by White trash
On the low end of "bad a$$" is something like a bilstein 5100 which are out of the box decent and better than any parts store shock you'll find. Above that would be a bilstein 7100 which are great shocks, rebuildable and custom valvable. After that the 9100 is their top dog but that's getting out of the weekend warrior territory in terms of cost etc. I'm a bit of a bilstein fanboy I guess...
There are lots of companies that make awesome shocks though. Fox, walker, king, racerunner, radflo, foa, sway away, fabtech, doetsch, heck even procomp has a line of decent shocks that are rebuildable/revalvable like the higher end shocks.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:30 pm
by OldGreen
My opinion only....but, a TJ or LJ really needs more compression valving than most shocks come with. The minimum I would consider would be Bilstein 7100 or King 2.0 emulsions or Fox 2.0 IFPs. Get them valved for about twice as much compression as stock and 3/4 as much rebound. We can help with this.
You don't need reservoir, bypass or huge shocks unless you plan on going fast for long periods of time.
I run 2.0 Fox in the front and 2.0 Walker Evans in the rear. Both with reservoirs. The Walkers are fine in the rear but I am really light and have 10" of up travel (unlike an LJ). The fronts stack up really bad in the high speed bumps because the standard valving is backward. I have a new set of valves sitting on the counter!!!
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:22 pm
by scumby
baahhhh!
save your money. I have RE mono-tube front shocks and RE twin-tube rear shocks on 4.5 inches of lift with plenty of travel. if I'm doing over 25 mphs I'm on pavement, offroad I'm probably the slowest person on the trail. you think Ed is running some high $ junk on his flattie/toy and he goes everywhere! do you have a winch for it yet? OBA or CO2 to air up? there has got to be another area you can spend your $ on.
MY $.02
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:00 pm
by Rottwheeler
I appreciate everybody's input... it is great food for thought.
I do have a Smittybilt winch that will go onto my car hauler when I procure a Warn 8274 and I have a power tank to air up (pretty darn fast I might add). The things on my near term to do list are suspension fix to bottoming out in the rear when loaded, roll cage upgrade, new tires within the next 6 months (vacillating on tire size and potential consequences... which is how this thread started
) and maybe some Mastercraft seats.
I'll admit I'm partial to Bilstein... but I am curious as to whether coil overs offer any significant benefit. My LJ is currently about 60/40 street to trail... and I like that I can drive to the trail with a well mannered rig (driving to Moab in 12 days).
Thanks again for your perspectives~
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:31 pm
by OldGreen
scumby wrote:baahhhh!
save your money. I have RE mono-tube front shocks and RE twin-tube rear shocks on 4.5 inches of lift with plenty of travel. if I'm doing over 25 mphs I'm on pavement, offroad I'm probably the slowest person on the trail. you think Ed is running some high $ junk on his flattie/toy and he goes everywhere! do you have a winch for it yet? OBA or CO2 to air up? there has got to be another area you can spend your $ on.
MY $.02
Guilt as charged. I geek out on shocks because I drive like a maniac
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:51 am
by scumby
Rottwheeler wrote: My LJ is currently about 60/40 street to trail... and I like that I can drive to the trail with a well mannered rig (driving to Moab in 12 days).
60/40 street., paved streets? washboard dirt roads? I don't think the drive to moab will be affected by your shocks. is your ride on the trail going to be fast?
and I agree, I can drive to the trail with a well maintained rig on cheap shocks.
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:34 am
by White trash
scumby wrote:
60/40 street., paved streets? washboard dirt roads? I don't think the drive to moab will be affected by your shocks. is your ride on the trail going to be fast?
and I agree, I can drive to the trail with a well maintained rig on cheap shocks.
Don't knock good shocks till you try them. For years I was captain cheap wheeler always poo-pooing those that spent money on things that seemingly did the same job as the low dollar parts I used. Then I ended up in a deal and scored a NOS pair of Gabriel shocks off an old desert truck and a pair of slightly used bilstiens. Night and day doesn't begin to explain the difference, I was driving a totally different truck. Coming from rancho 9000x's which I thought were "good" shocks I really didn't know what I'd been missing. No more body roll, no more sketchyness feeling on washboard. I could blast as fast as I could across an open field and not get beat to a pulp due to my 3" front and 6" rear up travel like I did before.
I learned the hard way, I'm not suggesting people need to run coilovers and triple bypasses on a street rig but a gas charged shock with the correct valving for the intended application is absolutely worth every single penny spent.
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:13 am
by tobyw
White trash wrote:Don't knock good shocks till you try them. For years I was captain cheap wheeler always poo-pooing those that spent money on things that seemingly did the same job as the low dollar parts I used. Then I ended up in a deal and scored a NOS pair of Gabriel shocks off an old desert truck and a pair of slightly used bilstiens. Night and day doesn't begin to explain the difference, I was driving a totally different truck. Coming from rancho 9000x's which I thought were "good" shocks I really didn't know what I'd been missing. No more body roll, no more sketchyness feeling on washboard. I could blast as fast as I could across an open field and not get beat to a pulp due to my 3" front and 6" rear up travel like I did before.
I learned the hard way, I'm not suggesting people need to run coilovers and triple bypasses on a street rig but a gas charged shock with the correct valving for the intended application is absolutely worth every single penny spent.
I will wholeheartedly second this... I had a TERRIBLE experience with an otherwise perfectly good Jeep, that ended up being nothing more than pi$$ poor hydro shocks. And as anyone that wheels (the mall) with me will tell you, I don't do anything fast, so speed has very little to do with my opinion here. My old man always said, "...find the best tires and brakes you can afford, and then save up one more pay check and buy the next best ones..." I have added shocks to that list to pass along to my kids
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:18 am
by OldGreen
That sounds like a Roy-ism. . .
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:58 pm
by Rottwheeler
I've been looking at shocks... about a grand per axle with Fox and King. Ran across some Walker Evans shocks on a rig in Moab last week and looked them up... not quite as much money. Anyone have experience with Walker Evans products? Thanks!
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:20 pm
by OldGreen
I have Walkers on the rear. Work great. I think that they use Fox valve stacks.
