Mandi's Hover Shakedown

[Livin4Today]

Today we ran out to Hover (solo - & I did no driving) to get Mandi some stick time and see how well the modifications did. She drove I rode and took pictures, wait... talk about role reversal!

We found a few adjustment need to be made for clearancing on the front axle (Trackbar bolt), the E-Locker is as expected AWESOME, and the combination of the other goodies with the new Super Swampers makes Xaria a true contender. the flex could be better, but need to get her some longer shocks.

I'd dare say she could follow nearly anyone. See for yourself...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItJiP9xAZQY[/youtube]

[79chevy39.5's]

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[Livin4Today]

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still processing, give it a bit...

[Wrench]

What's limiting the front flex so much?

[Roman]

Wow, sway bar still hooked up?

[Livin4Today]

Need 14" shocks... No sway bars at all...

[Wrench]

The shocks will only limit extension, which explains the passenger front having limited droop. I was curious why the wheel up on the rock has virtually no spring compression, while the opposite rear is sacked out. Unbalanced springs? Is it sitting on the bump stop in front?

Locker or not, this has the potential of severely limiting your forward movement in low-traction crossed-up conditions.

You already order some shocks?

My Cherokee was using 10" travel shocks. With 14", and you either need to run bump stops that are too long, move your lower shock mount down, or modify the unibody and move the upper shock mount up. 14" will not fit when compressed, they are too long. You could run 12", though, but may still need to move the lower shock mount down a tad.

[Livin4Today]

The shocks will only limit extension, which explains the passenger front having limited droop. I was curious why the wheel up on the rock has virtually no spring compression, while the opposite rear is sacked out. Unbalanced springs? Is it sitting on the bump stop in front?

Locker or not, this has the potential of severely limiting your forward movement in low-traction crossed-up conditions.

You already order some shocks?

My Cherokee was using 10" travel shocks. With 14", and you either need to run bump stops that are too long, move your lower shock mount down, or modify the unibody and move the upper shock mount up. 14" will not fit when compressed, they are too long. You could run 12", though, but may still need to move the lower shock mount down a tad.

Correct!
My shocks at full extension are 3 inches too short, hence the need for longer front shocks. No I have yet to order the shocks.

I currently have 11" shocks (measuring the body) on and just measured how short I am from the mount fully extended. Figured using the shock as the limiter would not be so great for the shocks, not to mention not being able to reach out that extra few inches for traction. Maybe 13s???

What limited the stuffage was a grade 5 trackbar bolt not clearing the fabulous truss we built for the axle. I needed to adjust the LCAs out about 1/2 inch, and reverse the the bolt. Done and done, may still need to fine tune the UCAs.

Calling upon all Cherokee wizards of good and evil
I'm open to suggestions here, but many of you are or have run this platform and may have a trick or idea up their sleeve let's here it so Mandi can get her Spidey on!

[Wrench]

As far as I know, shocks lengths always refer to travel, ie: length of exposed chrome at full extension. DO NOT base your shock length on a guess, or a desire to out-do the next guy. Too long of a shock can turn into a nightmare trying to make room to get it to fit well, and shocks make TERRIBLE bump stops.

To work the best, you should adjust your bump stops so they stop the axle travel just before tire contact with the fenderwell at full compression. Use a hoist to raise the front, remove the springs, then lower the vehicle all the way down on the bump stops to test.

From there, your shock length choice will depend on how far your suspension will droop. Raise the front of the vehicle back up with a hoist until the tires come off the ground. With a Cherokee, your track bar, driveshaft ujoints, and lower arms will be contacting and binding. How far you go to modify these and what arms you are using will determine your shock length, to a point.

On a Cherokee, a 10" travel shock works well with minor mods and trimming to be able to use the full 10", and even then, the stock arms are not ideal. 12" will need quite a bit more, to include long arms and probably the steering damper relocated a tad. If you go 14", you will not be able to get that much extension out of the track bar without removing the steering damper, and you definitely wont be able to use the stock suspension arms.

I am not an expert, though, as I havent used any off-the-shelf suspension kits out there. Mine was totally custom-made by me. Even with 10" shocks, I removed the steering damper and used long radius arms and it worked very well. I could have gotten away with using 12" shocks comfortably, but 14's would have been too much for the driveshaft to take.

[OldGreen]

with stock mounts, Wrench is dead on. It is OK to limit droop or bump. You will have to compromise with stock mounts on anything over 10" of travel. Your 11" shock body is probably either 9 or 10" of travel. If you get longer shocks, you WILL limit bump travel. There is a whole dissertation on when enough droop is enough, but if you disconnect your shocks and force articulation with a jack on the opposite side, you can get a good idea of the ideal droop travel by where the spring stops pressing downward. If there is no contact pressure, it fails to matter if the tire is on the ground or not. No spring pressure = no travel.

I am more of a fan of bump travel personally. 4.5" lift springs, 9.5" shocks and about an extra 2" of bumpstop and I use all of the shock travel. My shocks have a long body though so you could get away with 10" travel shocks if you use white rockets.

[Livin4Today]

Ok just to clarify, Xaria has 9 inches of travel, and 11 inch body shocks, and adjustable LCAs and UCAs and 4 inch front springs from a TJ. So I'm looking at some 10 inch travel fronts that'll be in on Wed. I'll settle for that I guess, or should I say Mandi will...

[OldGreen]

Yeah, unless you make custom mounts, you are pretty limited.

[Livin4Today]

Now We need a front driveshaft! For the love of Mike!

[Wrench]

Ok just to clarify, Xaria has 9 inches of travel, and 11 inch body shocks, and adjustable LCAs and UCAs and 4 inch front springs from a TJ. So I'm looking at some 10 inch travel fronts that'll be in on Wed. I'll settle for that I guess, or should I say Mandi will...

10" travel shocks will do very well if you set everything else up to use the full travel without anything binding. No need to feel like you are "settling", it's a good setup. Any more than that and you will be down for a while trying to heavily modify everything to make 12" shocks work.

One other note about setup that I discovered on the Cherokee: the track bar. When you lower the mount point at the frame, you lower the vehicle roll center, and you will have more body roll around corners. You will also throw the steering geometry off and have bump-steer. The bad thing about the Cherokee is that there is no room at the axle to raise the mount point without major modification, as the springs are in the way. This was one of the deciding factors in me choosing to go to air shocks in the future. You are better off keeping the factory mount points and going with a track bar that doesnt bind with that much droop. The angle of the track bar and steering shaft will be steep, but the geometry will be correct.

One other note: I have found that a lot of "lift springs" are made with a spring rate that is better suited for 50+mph dune blasting, and not good for soft and flexy suspension. Finding good springs can be a crap-shoot. What I used are not ideal, but worked pretty well. I used a combination of spacers and progressive-rate "up-country" Grand Cherokee springs, stock length. Ideally, a longer spring with the same rate would have been perfect.

[ZMBEKLR]

One other note: I have found that a lot of "lift springs" are made with a spring rate that is better suited for 50+mph dune blasting, and not good for soft and flexy suspension. Finding good springs can be a crap-shoot. What I used are not ideal, but worked pretty well. I used a combination of spacers and progressive-rate "up-country" Grand Cherokee springs, stock length. Ideally, a longer spring with the same rate would have been perfect.

Having had an XJ I am sold on the Rubicon Express Springs and Leafs. You can see the amount of flex I was able to get with their extream kit and the rear end is still on the ground. That paired with the Bilstein shocks made for great on road handling as well.






Just my two cents.

[Wrongway]

When you're ready to go coil over let me know.

Fox 2.0" Coil Over Air Shock, 1-1/4" Shaft. Spring rate will be dependent on corner weight.

[Wrench]

If you are going to use short arms, the RE setup right there is probably the best way to go.

If you go full custom/long-arm, a 3-link coil-over setup like what Bryan had on his TJ would be fantastic.

[Lurch]

When you're ready to go coil over let me know.

Fox 2.0" Coil Over Air Shock, 1-1/4" Shaft. Spring rate will be dependent on corner weight.

Just out of curiosity how much? I've considered going with coil overs on the front of my bronco.

[Wrongway]

When you're ready to go coil over let me know.

Fox 2.0" Coil Over Air Shock, 1-1/4" Shaft. Spring rate will be dependent on corner weight.

Just out of curiosity how much? I've considered going with coil overs on the front of my bronco.

8" - 15" Coil-Over Air Shocks run about $340.00 Each, then you will need two springs per shock that are about $80 each.

We would have to weigh the corners and get the correct spring rate.

The nice thing about the Air-Coil over shocks is you set the ride height with springs AND air so it's adjustable to a point. Most of the nitro will control rebound dampening.

Can also use the 2.5 Coil-Over shocks, but a bit more money (about $100 and end and more critical on spring choice.

[Livin4Today]

Xaria will not see any COs or long arms for a while, at least not until mine are in Julia! But that is the direction I'm going, 3 link front/4 link rear with coils initially...